Before you can really understand the doctrine of hell, you must first understand some things concerning God’s people (The Israelites) who were under captivity of the Egyptians for about 400 years. During this time, they were introduced to many of the pagan gods in Egyptian mythology. This is where the origin of the hell doctrine started.
In Egyptian mythology, Duat (pronounced “do-aht”) (also Tuat and Tuaut or Akert, Amenthes, Amenti, or Neter-khertet) is the realm of the dead. The Duat is the realm of the god Osiris and the residence of other gods and supernatural beings. It also was the place where people’s souls went after death for judgement, though that was not the full extent of the afterlife. The geography of Duat is similar in outline to the world the Egyptians knew. There are realistic features like rivers, islands, fields, lakes, mounds and caverns, along with fantastic lakes of fire, walls of iron and trees of turquoise. In the Book of Two Ways, one of the Coffin Texts, there is even a map-like image of the Duat. The dead person must pass a series of gates guarded by dangerous spirits, depicted as human bodies with grotesque heads of animals, insects, torches or knives. These beings have equally grotesque names, for instance “Blood-drinker who comes from the Slaughterhouse” or “One who eats the excrement of his hindquarters”. Other features emphasized in these texts are mounds and caverns, inhabited by gods or supernatural animals, which threatened the spirits of the dead. The purpose of the books is not to lay out geography, but to describe a succession of rites of passage which the dead would have to pass to reach the afterlife. If the deceased successfully passed these unpleasant demons, he or she would reach the Weighing of the Heart. In this ritual, the heart of the deceased was weighed by Anubis, using a feather, representing Ma’at, the goddess of truth and justice. The heart would become out of balance because of failure to follow Ma’at and any hearts heavier or lighter than her feather were rejected and eaten by the Ammit, the Devourer of Souls. Those souls that passed the test would be allowed to travel toward the paradise of Aaru.
In spite of the unpleasant inhabitants of the Duat, this was no hell to which souls were condemned; the nature of Duat is more complex than that. The grotesque spirits of the underworld were not evil, but under the control of the Gods. The Duat was also a residence of gods themselves; as well as Osiris, Anubis, Thoth, Horus, Hathor and Ma’at all appear as a dead soul makes its way toward judgement. It was also in the underworld that the sun, Ra, travelled under the Earth from west to east and was transformed from its aged Atum form into Khepri, the new dawning Sun. Just as a dead person faced many challenges in the Duat, Ra faced attack in the underworld from the evil serpent Apep.
It should be easy enough to see that all of this stuff you just read comes from ancient mythology. A myth is a false story otherwise known as a fable. None of this stuff is truth. It is no more true than the Loch Ness Monster of the Scottish Highlands. There were many other pagan beliefs that crept in to the minds of God’s people including man having an immortal soul, belief in reincarnation, and the afterlife. Many people today still believe these things that have their origin from ancient pagan belief systems. Over the centuries, new ideologies were formed to create this modern view of hell more specific, eternal punishment. The sad truth is that these pagan ideas have no origin in the holy scriptures. If you choose to continue believing this garbage, you are simply putting your faith in lies and the bible teaches us that the devil is the father of lies.
John 8:44 YE ARE OF YOUR FATHER THE DEVIL, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. WHEN HE SPEAKETH A LIE, HE SPEAKETH OF HIS OWN: FOR HE IS A LIAR, AND THE FATHER OF IT. [So let me ask you this – who is your daddy?]
According to the Merriam Webster dictionary, hell– is defined as the realm of the devil and the demons in which the damned suffer everlasting punishment; a place or state of misery, torment, or wickedness.
Does this definition not sound like some fabricated garbage similar to the beliefs of the Egyptians? Where do you think Merriam Webster got this definition from in the first place?
The word “hell” isn’t and never was a biblical word. The actual word “hell” never came out of the mouth of Jesus Christ. Hell was translated from the Hebrew word, “shĕ’owl” (31 times) and the Greek word(s) “hadēs” (10 times), “geenna” (12 times), and “tartaroō” (1 time). The King James Version is the only English translation in modern use to translate shĕ’owl, hadēs, geenna, and tartaroō as hell. This fact alone should tell you that something is just not right about this word.
If the King James translators made translation mistakes, how did this happen? The first thing that you need to understand is that the King James translators were not inspired of God in contrast to the men who penned the holy scriptures under divine inspiration of God. Many people believe that the King James bible is God’s perfect restoration of his word. What people fail to realize is that the King James translators made this admission in their own preface to the readers;
“No cause therefore why the word translated should be denied
to be the word, or forbidden to be current, notwithstanding that some imperfections and blemishes may be noted in the setting forth of it.”
This is stated in the preface of the King James bible of 1611 but it is no longer included in many modern translations. Does this mean that we shouldn’t study the bible or trust God’s word? Absolutely not but it is important to consider these interesting facts regarding the history of the bible;
- In 382, the first Latin translation was produced by St. Jerome and this translation was known as the Latin Vulgate.
- The holy scriptures were translated in to many other languages, however, the Roman Catholic Church made it punishable by death to possess a non-Latin bible.
- The Latin Vulgate was the primary and in many places the only version of the holy scriptures controlled by the Roman Catholic Church for nearly 1,000 years. (This period is known as the Dark Ages)
- During the Protestant Reformation period, the first English translation of the holy scriptures was written by John Wycliffe around the year 1380.
- The Wycliffe English bible was translated from Latin to English due to the fact that the original manuscripts were not available to John Wycliffe.
- Johann Gutenberg invented the printing press in the 1450’s making it easier to make copies as opposed to hand written copies which were in limited supply.
- Towards the end of the Dark Ages, the truth about the corrupt Roman Catholic church began to be exposed and the Latin Vulgate was considered by many to be inaccurate even to the point of taking away the gospel of Christ.
- In 1537, John Rogers completed the English bible which was the first English bible translated from the original biblical languages of Hebrew & Greek.
- The first English bible that was authorized for public use was the “Great Bible” published by Myles Cloverdale at the request of King Henry VIII.
- Queen Mary I of England took the throne after King Henry’s death, and she made it her purpose to destroy the Reformation movement and to return England back to Roman Catholicism.
- Fleeing persecution, a group of Reformers including John Calvin published the Geneva Bible in the 1560’s and this bible is commonly known to be the first bible taken to America.
- The Roman Catholic church eventually had there own English translation (Douay–Rheims Bible) published fully in year 1610 directly from the Latin Vulgate which was known to be a corrupt translation.
- The Geneva Bible was well accepted by the people, however, the marginal notes grossly criticized the Roman Catholic church for their heretical practices and the powers that be sought to have a less than controversial translation.
- From 1605 to 1611, about 50 bible scholars used the the Tyndale New Testament, the Coverdale Bible, the Matthews Bible, the Great Bible, the Geneva Bible, and the Rheims New Testament to evetually publish the well known King James bible.
- All bibles discussed so far included 80 books (66 old and new testament books + the 14 books of the Apocrypha) until the 1880’s when they were removed.
- Today, there are hundreds of translations available and the most recognized translations in America remains to be the King James, the New American Standard Bible, and the New International Version.
In consideration of these facts, what can we learn about God’s plans? If the holy scriptures were locked in the Latin language for nearly a millennium, how does the doctrine of hell make any sense? With that said, the bible used during that time (the Latin Vulgate) was known to be corrupt and full of inaccuracies only to promote the power and business of the Roman Catholic church. How can a person’s eternal fate depend on a message that is false? If God is all knowing and all powerful, then we can surmise that God knew that this would happen to his word and he of course allowed it to happen. Many people do not understand the mysterious ways about God but I can assure that these actions did not occur against God’s will. My point in showing you these facts is to illustrate to you how the times have changed in regards to people seeking the truth in God’s word. During the time that the Roman Catholic church was in control, the primary way for people to hear God’s words was to hear it from a Catholic priest. There weren’t any pocket bibles or stores where you could just stop by and buy a copy. Of course there wasn’t any Internet so these people had no way of determining if God’s truth was actually being delivered. This stuff was serious business back then and in no way compared to the soft holier than thou Christians of today. People were executed by being burned at the stake for doing something as petty as having a non-Latin bible in their possession. Can you imagine being burned alive just for having a English pocket bible? Thank God we live in a time of relative peace but I believe that it is this peace that has created a spirit of stupor in this country.
The doctrine of hell is an evil doctrine that originated from pagan mythology, but the Roman Catholic church used it to put fear in to the minds of people only for control. It is documented that many Roman Catholic officials would charge fees for the forgiveness of sins and for the indulgence of certain sins. The people that lived during this time cannot be held responsible for being under that kind of spiritual tyranny. By understanding the history and the translations we have, we can learn a lot concerning the truth about this evil doctrine of hell. If we are to trust and believe that the bible is the word of God, we need to understand the differences in the translations. Since the doctrine of hell is believed by the whole Christian church, consider these differences in the usage of the word hell in these following translations;
|
Year |
Bible Version | OT | NT | Total |
|
382 |
Latin Vulgate | 87 | 24 | 111 |
|
1611 |
King James | 31 | 23 | 54 |
| 1862 | Young’s Literal Translation | 0 | 0 |
0 |
| 1901 | American Standard | 0 | 13 |
13 |
| 1982 | New King James | 19 | 13 |
32 |
Who is right and how can we know? The truth is that the word hell is not necessarily a bad translated word. The actual word “hell” has German origin. If you study Teutonic mythology, which is the study of Germanic paganism, you will learn that the word “hell” orginated from the word “hel” which meant that which is hidden or out of sight. In ancient German culture, the common phrase, “they went to hel” meant that two people went to go hide. The Old Norse (an ancient Germanic language) word hel derives from the Proto-Germanic word haljō, which means “one who covers up or hides something”, which itself derives from Proto-Indo-European word kel-, meaning “conceal”. The cognate in English is the word hell, which is from the Old English forms hel and helle. In Norse mythology, Hel is a being that resides over a place of the same name Hel, where this being receives the dead.
It is the modern interpretation of the word hell that involves literal torture that is the primary problem. People have long been plagued with fear because of this terrible false doctrine that is deceiving millions but it is time for the truth to come forth. Even though I use to believe in hell, I find it strange that people continue to believe it even with overwhelming evidence that it is complete garbage. I think most people believe in hell because they really think it is God’s word. I also think that other people really like the idea of their enemies burning in real fire forever. Sadly for the most part, people just haven’t heard the truth and they’ve been brainwashed in to believing a counterfeit gospel.
Case in point: a common misconception that people spread about the teaching of hell is that Jesus talked more about hell than he did about heaven. Maybe you have even said this before not really knowing if in fact it is even true at all. Let’s fact check this common belief;
The word hell appears (54) times in the King James Version bible; 31 times in the Old Testament, and 23 in the New Testament. Of the 23 times hell is used in the New Testament, 16 times the usage was accounted to Christ. The words punishment, judgment, and damnation appear 42 times and many of these are also accounted to Christ. However, the majority of the accounts of these words are in the synoptic gospels (Matthew, Mark, & Luke) which all give accounts of some of the same messages. Irregardless of this fact, I will count all of these uses anyway. So we have a total of 58 uses of hell, damnation, punishment, and judgment. Would you believe that the words heaven, kingdom, kingdom of heaven, paradise, kingdom of God is used some 242 times with the majority of these references accounted to Christ? People are infatuated with this teaching of hell and eternal punishment. You see the numbers; believe what you will but I chose to believe the truth.
In Part 2, I will be explaining the meaning of the Hebrew word shĕ’owl and the Greek word hadēs.
Click the link to go to Part 2: The Meaning of Shĕ’owl & Hadēs
The Real Gospel of Christ 
In Luke 13:28, it says there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.. why does jesus say that?
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Jesus says that because that is the reaction that the Jews will have when they see Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of God while they themselves are trust out. Jesus was condemning the evil self-righteous Jews with his words and the phrase “weeping and gnashing of teeth” is never used to describe the reaction of any person going to some place called hell. You have to read the whole scripture and interpret all of the words instead of just picking out phrases to justify commonly accepted ideas of Christianity.
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Hell is 100% real , people who are Alive on Earth have to choose wether they want to have Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ as their Saviour if not they go to a place called Hell , on Judgement day it will be up to God where they go and Jesus Christ will also choose. Satan is also real and so are the demons whoever owns this website plz wake up. I have had demons come out of me, what else could the dark shadows of been. Answer that thank you. I trust everything that David Hernandez. Don’t tell me that there is no heaven. I know there is why else would people with NDE experiences say otherwise. They all say the same things. Okay thank you.
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Hell is only 100% real in the minds of people who believe it. Unfortunately, it is fairly easy for human beings to be convinced of just about anything. The idea of hell preys on the darkest aspects of human nature. It is natural for human beings to desire some form of retribution for the evil they’ve witnessed or experienced in their lives and hell certainly fits the bill in satisfying that carnal need. Interestingly enough, the concept of hell contradicts so many teachings from Christ such as His command for us to love our enemies and for us to forgive those who trespass against us to name a couple. I can’t imagine Christ giving such teachings to His followers all while He intends to send multitudes of people to a place called hell to torture them for all eternity in real fire. Not even for being overtly evil but for simply rejecting Him according to Christianity.
In reading your comment, I can’t help but wonder if you truly believe what you say or if you just believe what you believe? My 11-year-old daughter is alive on earth, so will she go to hell if she doesn’t choose Jesus Christ as her Lord and Savior? Or is she too young to be held eternally accountable for her sins? Does she get a pass to go to “heaven” if she were to die before reaching the age of accountability? Have you ever heard of Andrea Yates? She was a mother that drowned her 5 children in a bathtub so that they would go to heaven. In her terrible mental state, she believed that if they grew up under her parenting, they would ultimately go to hell so she wanted to prevent that. You think God approves of that behavior? According to Christianity, her children will be in heaven, so she effectively saved them from potentially going to hell if they had grown older and failed to choose whether they wanted to have to accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior. That’s the spiritual terrorism that the doctrine of hell creates.
Fear is not a healthy motivation for any relationship. Children shouldn’t love their parents out of fear, children should love their parents because their parents love them. That is how love is completed. Should we fear the Lord? Of course we should, but fear is the BEGINNING of wisdom not the end.
1 John 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love.
Do you believe that God is love? Scripture confirms that God is love, so if God is love, then there should be no fear in loving God. If one must fear an eternal hell of torture, how can they be made perfect in love with God? How does someone choose whether they want to Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior? Most people experience this choice during alter call at a Christian church when they are presented with the Christian paradox of accepting Christ or burning in hell for all eternity. Do you think that is love? If a man wanted to pursue you, would you choose him if he threatened to torture you for the rest of your life? Or would you choose him because he chose to love you? Think about it? Are God’s ways higher than man’s or lower? I’m asking you from a human perspective. What person in their right mind would ever condone such horrible circumstances? I know if is a custom within Christianity to believe that we must choose Christ but where in the scriptures do we read such a command? Scripture is clear that God does the choosing.
John 6:44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.
Can someone come to Christ if the Father hasn’t drawn them? No according to John 6:44. If God hasn’t drawn someone, then how can they choose Christ? Is God choosing everyone in this age? I don’t think so because many are called but few are chosen. The few who are chosen are chosen for a very specific goal but that’s a topic for another day.
You said that on judgment day, it will be up to God to decide where people go and Jesus Christ will also choose. Do you have a scripture to back up that statement? I’m sure you have some hell verses memorized that you can quote but here is what the word of God says about judgment;
Isaiah 26:9 With my soul I have desired You in the night, Yes, by my spirit within me I will seek You early; FOR WHEN YOUR JUDGMENTS ARE IN THE EARTH, THE INHABITANTS OF THE WORLD WILL LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS.
How do you reconcile the idea that God’s judgment leads to a hell when Isaiah 26:9 tells us something very differently? Do you believe the word of God? If you do, then you cannot ignore what God says in this verse just to cling to your own beliefs.
You are correct Christina! Jesus will choose, but Jesus said;
“If I am lifted up from the earth, I will draw all peoples to Myself.” He said, signifying by what death He would die (John 12:32-33).
Jesus will draw ALL PEOPLES to Himself? When does Christianity ever teach that? What death did Jesus die?
Romans 5:10 For if, when we were ENEMIES, we were reconciled to God by the DEATH of his Son, MUCH MORE (people), being reconciled, WE SHALL BE SAVED BY HIS LIFE.
1 John 2:2 And he (Jesus) is the propitiation (atoning sacrifice) for our sins: AND NOT FOR OURS ONLY, BUT ALSO FOR THE SINS OF THE WHOLE WORLD.
If Jesus is the atoning sacrifice for the sins of the world, why would there even be a need for a hell? Hell would seem to disqualify the sacrifice that Christ made on behalf of humanity. I know that it is difficult to give up the dogma of hell. Trust me, I know but maybe you should give some thought what I’m saying. I encourage you to do so!
I don’t deny that Satan is real. I know we have an enemy but our enemy is not God. Just maybe Christina, you need to wake up. Fear mongering doesn’t work on me. You can’t scare me with the nonsense of hell. Read my paper on the false doctrine of hell. If you have questions, let’s discuss your questions. I’m here to help you. Having the noses smashed off the idols we hold onto is difficult to accept. It wasn’t easy for me but it was a little easier because I absolutely detest the idea of hell. It is repulsive. Do you think God is worse than Hitler? Hitler’s victims DIED. According to Christianity, God’s victims will never die. They will burn in hell for all eternity. You think that’s reasonable?
I don’t know if you had demons come out of you. What do you mean by dark shadows? The human mind is a very powerful thing. Many times, we create our own demons without even realizing it. If you feed your mind evil, you will reap evil thoughts. The doctrine of hell is a demon and if you continue believing in hell, you will continue to carry that demon with you.
You trust everything that David Hernandez says? You should trust God. I have no quarrels against Mr. Hernandez. He seems to have a successful ministry. That doesn’t mean he can’t be misled. I only spoke against him because he chose to criticize universalism and he did so very badly I might add. It’s not up to me to decide who you choose to trust but I would caution you not to idolize men.
Romans 3:4 Let God be true, and every human being a liar.
I never said there wasn’t a heaven. I just do not believe that God’s heaven is a literal physical location with streets of gold and babies flying around playing harps. That is human imagination. God’s heaven is spiritual. There are no boundaries. Heaven is not a location. Heaven is a spiritual realm for God is spirit. The only way to experience heaven is in the mind when a person is one in spirit with the Creator. I don’t believe that this is possible to achieve completely in this life, nevertheless, dwelling in heaven is mental.
Do you regularly believe what people say who are at the precipice of death? When has a person who is near death ever been rationale? NDE’s are nothing but religious fantasy. Clinical death is different from biological death. A person can be revived from clinical death and that is where all these NDE’s come from. The brain is still functioning during clinical death and there is no telling what someone’s mind can conjure up based on all the things they have downloaded into their brains during their lifetime. Don’t be naïve. NDE’s are fascinating to people. People are interested in what lies on the other side. People right books about this stuff. It is absolutely fascinating and that is what draws people to believing such nonsense. People are drawn to what is entertaining. I can go on YouTube right now and do a search for NDE’s and I will find boatloads of videos of people claiming that they went to hell, heaven, or that they saw God… It is nothing but people’s own imagination. Repetition of a fantasy doesn’t make the fantasy anymore true than it would if a million people had NDE’s about Narnia. Do you know what confirmation bias means? It is the tendency to interpret new evidence as confirmation of one’s existing beliefs or theories. That is exactly what NDE’s are. They are confirmation bias for the religious ideas that religious people already hold. I watched a video of a man who claimed to have had an NDE in which he claims to have gone up to heaven and saw God face to face…
John 1:18 NO ONE HAS EVER SEEN GOD, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.
John 3:13 NO ONE HAS EVER GONE INTO HEAVEN except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.
Do you believe YouTube and the biased testimonies of people over the scriptures?
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I think sin could make our lives hell on earth, hence the whole message against sin.
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The word “hell” is often used as hyperbole but it really has no correlation with the actual literal doctrine of a torturing fire burning hell. Whatever a person suffers through on earth it will eventually end at death. There is no end to the suffering and misery in the teaching of a literal hell.
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BIBLE TELL US THAT WHEN GOD RECREATES THIS WORLD IT WILL BE BY A BY FIRE, BY WHICH EVERY ELEMENT SHALL MELT WITH FERVRENT HEAT & THE WICKED &SATAN WITH ALL HIS WICKED ANGELS SHALL BE CONSUMED IN THIS FIRE BY WHICH GOD USES TO DESTROY ALL EVIDENCE OF THIS WORLDS HISTORY AND TO DECAMINATE IT. FOR MANKIND HAS CONTAMINATED IT. THIS WHY JOHN SAID I SAW A NEW HEAVEN & NEW EARTH. GOD WANTS THIS EARTH TO BE BACK IN THE TRUE STATEIN WHICH HE HAD FIRST CREARED IT.THERE SHALL BE NO EVIDENCE OF HOW SATAN HAS GOTTEN MANKIND TO ALTER IT BY SATANS INSPIRATION. SATANS HATES US ALL & WANTS TO BRING ABOUT SUFERING BECAUSE HE WANTS REVENGE ON GOD FOR WE ARE HIS CHILDREN.GOD SENT HIS SON TO PAY THE PRICE FOR THE PENALTY OF SIN SO THROUGH HIS DEATH & RESURECTION WE HAVE BEEN SET FREE FROM OUR INHERITED INCLINATIONS TO BE REBELS AGAINTS GODS LAWS WHICH ARE NOTHING MORE THAN A REVELATION OF GODS CHARACTER OF LOVE.THIS IS WHT YESHUA SAID IF YOU LOVE ME, KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS. THESE WORDS GO ALOT DEEPER TO EXPLAIN ,FOR THESE WORDS FOR THEY ARE NOT AS SIMPLE AS THEY SEEM. HE WANTS US WHO ARE FILLED BY H.S TO LEAN ON HIM TO EMPOWER US & GIVE US THE ABILITY TO RESIST SATAN. BUT WITH OUT PRAYERFUL STUDY OF GODS WORDS WE WILL NOT GET THIS EMPOWERMENT, FOR WE SEE WHEN CHRIST 1ST STARTED HIS WORK HE 1ST WENT INTO WILDERNESS TO BE ALONE WITH HIS FATHER JUST AS HE WAS ABOUT TO EMBARK ON HIS MISSION TO REVEAL TO US & GET UNDERSTANDING OF GODS TRUE CHARACTER& BY THIS WE CAN NOW KNOW WHAT A PERFECT SINLESS LIFE REALLY MEANS . FOR WE ARE ALSO TOLD HE IS THE LIGHT& THE WAY.WE NEED DWELL ON THESE VERY POWERFUL WORDS ABOUT 1 OF THE REASONS WHAT HIS PURPOSE FOR BECOMING A MAN FOR US.THEY WOULD SHOW US BY HOW HE WENT ABOUT LIVING HIS LIFE THAT THIS WAS AN EXAMPLE AS TO HOW WE R TO LIVE OURS. (FOR MORE TRUTHS IF YOU,LD LIKE TO FIND OUT THROUGH GODS HOLY WORDS CONTACT METHROUGH MAKE1LORD@YAHOO.COM).
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You are one of the most knowledgeable people I have read on this subject. I greatly appreciate your time and effort and may God bless you greatly!
Thank you!
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Thank you!
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I also have to agree with you about how fascinated and obsessed people can be over the concept of eternal torture. For me though even when I learned this as a child…something about the concept never did sit well with me. Then when I learned the truth…I then understood why this teaching has disturbed me to my core my whole life until a few years ago when I learned the truth and it checked in my spirit. It really really really is a good thing that “man” is not God. Man is so corrupt in his heart it is unbelievable and yes I am included in that we are all sinners.
Thank you again for your efforts and putting this out there! 🙏
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What then is the most accurate translation to use?
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If by accurate you mean as closely to the original language as possible then I would say the Concordant Version. Go to https://www.concordant.org/version/ to access the online versions for free but they do have purchase options. The King James Version is not a bad translation overall but by eliminating the words hell, eternal, and everlasting you will have solved the majority of that translations major errors. Most of the errors are of little consequence but hell and bible translators changing “age-abiding” to eternal/everlasting has severe consequences. Which translation do you prefer?
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So where would you say those who don’t accept Christ go then? The Bible tells us the only way to Heaven is through Christ, meaning if you don’t accept Christ you won’t go to Heaven. So what happens to those people?
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There are assumptions in your questions that I must first correct before I can properly answer your question. Firstly, going to “heaven” after death is a teaching based on Christian tradition but there is no scripture that says that anyone goes to “heaven” at death. Jesus said that NO MAN has ascended up to heaven except for him that came from heaven.
Heaven is not a place it is a spiritual realm. A person can dwell in heaven now! The closer a person comes to the understanding and knowledge of the truth the closer they are to heaven which is the place of complete truth. There are levels of heaven but heaven is not a physical place somewhere in outer space. It is a place of spiritual understanding and knowledge.
The second assumption is suggesting that a person can accept Christ with his own free will outside of any influence from God. Jesus said that NO MAN can come to him unless they be drawn by the Father. Many people are drawn to Christianity but not to Christ. Many people accept Christianity but deny Christ and this is why Christ says many will say to him in that day Lord Lord we prophesied in your name, cast out demons in your name, and did many wonderful works and Christ will say depart from me you workers of LAWLESSNESS I never knew you. What group of people prophesizes in the name of Christ? Atheist, unbelievers, the wicked? No, Christians do these things. What group of people cast of demons in the name of Christ? Atheist, unbelievers, the wicked? No, Christians do these things. What group of people do many wonderful works in the name of Christ? Atheist, unbelievers, the wicked? No, Christians do these things. There will be MANY Christians that Jesus will tell to depart from him and that he never knew them. This idea that you must accept Christ is how the church has put the burden of salvation on the responsibility of the sinner but sinner cannot save themselves anymore than a baby can provide for themselves. There are many called but few chosen. There is an order to God’s salvation and it has nothing to do with people accepting Christ into their hearts whatever that means anyway.
There is NO scripture that says the only way to “heaven” is through Christ. There are some scriptures that might seem to allude to that idea but those ideas are based on faulty Christian interpretation. Narrow is the way that leads to LIFE and only a few find it – there are many called and few chosen. Christ is talking about the reward of aionios life – or an extra age of life that the rest of the world doesn’t experience. God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son that whoever so believes in him will not perish but will have aionios (age-abiding) life (not everlasting life). God is talking about not perishing into the coming age because it is clear that the righteous and unrighteous both perish (die).
Those who are not chosen in this life will rise from the dead in the resurrection to judgment after the saints reign with Christ for the millennia but when God’s judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness (Isaiah 26:9). How is it that Christianity teaches that a person is saved?
Romans 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
Okay, so you must confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus? How does a person come to do that?
1 Corinthians 12:3 Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit.
No one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit? That’s interesting but this proves that there must be Holy Spirit intervention and influence before a person can be lead to salvation.
Philippians 2:13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.
But before that we read;
Philippians 2:11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Do you know that the word “should” is not in the original Greek? The bible translators added the word should to make it seem as if there is room for doubt but there is no doubt because in Romans 14:11, it says every tongue shall confess to God. The Greek word “exomologeō” is the word translated as confess and it means to acknowledge openly and joyfully.
Everyone will accept Christ in God’s timing when God judges the world in righteousness.
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Those who don’t accept Christ as their Savior and his death on the cross and the shedding of his blood and his subsequent reserection from the dead for the forgiveness of our sins and so that we shall have eternal life will certainly go to hell along with Satan and the rest of his fallen angels!
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Hello Diane and thanks for commenting. I have a question for you and the question is ,”How does one come to “accept” Christ as their Savior?” Show me one scripture that says that a person much “accept” Christ before they die to avoid going to some pagan hell? It is a commonly held theme within Christianity that a person can just “accept” Christ with their own free will but this theme is NOT supported by the scriptures in any way.
John 6:44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.
The Father must draw (Greek – drag) a person to Christ before a person can come to or (accept) Christ as you claim and it is clear that the Father is not drawing everyone to Christ in this present age. Jesus says 12:32;
If I be lifted up from the earth, I will DRAW all men (humanity) to Myself.
Do you believe the words of Christ? What does it mean for Christ to be lifted up from the earth? The answer is in the very next verse in John 12:33;
This he said, signifying what death he should die.
So Christ will draw all of humanity to Himself if He is lifted up from the earth to die on the cross for the sins of the world. This is how the Father will draws all of humanity to Christ in His timing and not yours or the timing of Christianity. There is not a single scripture that says God’s salvation runs out or expires at persons death.
Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
What is judgment? According to you and the dogmas of Christianity, God’s judgment is barbecuing billions of people in real fire for all eternity but thanks be to God that the truth needs neither your approval nor the approval of your religion of men. This is what happens when God’s judgment is upon the earth;
Isaiah 26:9 With my soul I have desired You in the night, Yes, by my spirit within me I will seek You early; For when Your judgments are in the earth, The inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.
Do you understand this? When (not now but in some future time or age) God’s JUDGMENTS are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness. Who is left out of the inhabitants of the world? The truth of the mattes is that you don’t want God to save the whole world because you think you are special. Your “heaven” is something to be desired of your ilk because of the people you exclude from it. It is convenient for you or someone in your position to appoint themselves to the winning side of your own argument while having no issue damning billions of losers to some godless hell. You don’t know what you are talking about. You are a repeater of dogmas – a religious parrot. Do you know how many times I have heard your regurgitated claims spewed just on this site alone? Did you really think I was going to submit to your line of thinking when I’ve clearly addressed nearly all if not all of your run on sentence? You seemingly did not bother to read anything I’ve written on this site because you would know that the word “eternal” is not a scriptural word and hell is a terrible false doctrine perpetuated by the church to control people through fear. You haven’t accepted Christ, you have accepted Christianity and with it all of her heresies. The fact that you have embraced such heresies is proof that you have not accepted Christ nor can you.
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One question? I do agree with you about the hell doctrine and I am reading your other material with an open mind to not dismiss it without prayer and searching the scriptures. My question is…what of the verse…Romans 6:23. To me that was a big verse that helped me realize that eternal hell torture is not the outcome. But I will keep reading your site as I have not read all the materials yet. I just got caught up in the comments and haven’t finished it yet but I will. Maybe you answer that in your site. So apologize if you did.
Thank you 🙏
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What is your question about Romans 6:23?
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I prefer to believe Heaven is for everyone than a few and the rest will not be there.
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Heaven is not a place.
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Heaven is a realm correct??The Kingdom of God “Righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Ghost which would mean that God would have to give you His Spirit?? Trying to make sense of it all because I am trying to understand this with all respect..
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Yes, heaven is a spiritual realm that transcends this physical world and our physical existence. There is nothing a person can do for God without His Spirit.
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What will become of those people whom Jesus tells to depart from Him?
Thank you 🙏
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The people that depart from Jesus must go through God’s judgment and Isaiah 26:9 says, “when God’s judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.
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Hello, I have a question about fire and brimstone preachers. Do you have any advice for how I could lovingly interact with one to show that there is more biblical evidence for universal restoration than eternal conscious torment? Also, what is your assessment if someone says that the everlasting destruction or punishment mentioned in the New Testament means that the unsaved are in a state of perpetual destruction for all of eternity? What do you think about Paul Washer?
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Not really and I would recommend that you not even try unless you want to be disappointed. It’s not your job to convince Christianity’s deceived clergy of anything and most Christians believe that universal reconciliation is heresy anyway. Christians don’t want God to save all of humanity because they think they are special. Certainly not every single Christian falls into that category but definitely the majority does in my opinion. The doctrine of hell is a cornerstone ideology in Christianity and without it the institution essentially falls. Preachers have always used hell to terrorize people and to scare them into becoming repeat church attendees which results in a monopoly of tithe collection. I’m sure this preacher you know has heard of universal salvation before and they probably already have their own opinions about it.
I’ve heard all kinds of theories or reasonings that Christians use to justify their heresies but I don’t pay too much attention to this because I know that the words eternal and everlasting aren’t scriptural words. Read my article on the truth about eternal and everlasting in my hell series. I explain in detail how the Hebrew word “owlam” and the Greek word “aionios” never mean eternal or everlasting. Read Ezekiel 16:55 and you’ll see that even Sodom and her daughters (Gomorrah, etc.) will return to their former estate.
I don’t know much about Paul Washer. I looked him up and what I glanced at briefly was enough for me to not be interested in investigating any further.
Hope this helps…
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Thank you,
I had been struggling with Hell and what the Bible actually teaches about it. When I became a Christian this past December, I realized the full weight of what the mainstream churches were teaching about Hell, and I wanted to get to the bottom of what the Bible says.
I am pretty sure that universal restoration is biblical, and I know that the eternal conscious torment view really has little to no biblical support.
Thank you for your guidance!
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It is pretty astonishing that you came to those conclusions so early in your walk as most people stay indoctrinated in fundamental Christian dogmas for decades. You are right thought as the bible is full of evidence for universal restoration. In the Greek, it is called the apokatastasis which literally means, restitution or restoration and in the context of scripture, it is referencing the restitution/restoration of all.
Acts 3:20-21 and that He may send Jesus Christ, who was preached to you before, whom heaven must receive until the times of “restoration of all things”, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began.
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Also to, I was at first afraid to put name on my post. I, Derek, and now leaning heavily towards universal restoration after viewing scholarly examination and commentary of the text while also keeping in mind Jesus and therefore the nature and character of God.
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Did most of the events of the Book of Revelation occur at or around 70 A.D.?
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No
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THE BIBLE SAYES LET EVER MAN BE A LIAR AND GOD BE TRUTH ITS NOT WHAT WE THING IT WHAT GOD HIM SELF SAYES IS TRUTH GOD GIVES EVER MAN HE OWN RIGHT THE TO CHOOSE AND BELIEVE //THE BIBLE SAYES IT IS A FEARFULL THING TO FALL INTO THE HANDS OF A LIVING GOD//GOD JUDGEMENTS ARE TRUE AND JUST NO MATTER WHAT YOU THINK OR BELIEVE//WHAT IS TRUTH IT IS NONE OTHER THAN GOD//WE ALL WILL STAND BEFOR GOD AND BE JUDGED FOR THE THINGS THAT WE HAVE DONE NO MATTER WHAT WE THINK//IT WILL BE GOD THAT GIVES ALL THE TRUTH AND THAT TRUTH IS NONE OTHER THAN HIS WORD//YOU SAY THERE IS NO HELL SO BE IT AND WHAT ABOUT THE LAKE OF FIRE WHICH IS THE SECOND DEATH//SO WHEN WE STAND BEFOR GOD THE ALMIGHTY CAN A MAN CONTINED WITH HIM BY NO MEANS FOR HE IS THE GOD MADE ALL THINGS HE WILL HAVE THE FINAL WORD NOT WHAT YOU THING OR BELIEVE//THE SOUL OF MAN WILL SPEND LIFE SOME WHERE BECAUSE THAT SOUL WILL NEVER DIE BECAUSE GOD MADE US NOT WE OURSELFS HE BREATHED INTO US AND BECAME ALIVING SOULGOD MADE US AS WE ARE AS UNTO HIM AND HIS LIKENESS//WE WILL SPEND ENTERITY SOME WHERE//WITH GOD THERE WILL BE NO SIN THERE ALL THAT WILL BE IN HIS PRESENT IS HOLY HOLYNESS//GOD SAYS THERE IS A PLACE FOR THOUGHS THAT ARE NOT BORN INTO THE FAMLY OF GOD JESUS SAID A MAN MUST BE BORN AGAIN IF YOU DONT BELIEVE WHAT JESUS SAID SO BE IT SO BELIEVE A LIE AND BE DAMMED IT ALL UP TO YOU// YOU HAVE THAT RIGHT//I WOULD DIE ON WHAT I BELIEVE NOT ON WHAT I THINK BUT ON WHAT I KNOW SO THE SPIRIT OF GOD BEARS WITTNESS WITH THE TRUTH//YOU SAY UNTIL I SEEN THE TRUTH WHAT IS THAT TRUTH THAT YOU SAY YOU HAVE SEEN IS OF GOD ARE WHAT THINK SO BECAUSE THE HOLY GHOST WILL BEAR OUT THE TRUTH AND THAT IS ALL WE HAVE TO GO ON BECAUSE THE HOLY GHOST WILL LEAD AND GIDE IN ALL TRUTHS
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It is painful to read anything in ALL CAPS but your writing is just horrible. Your comment has to be the longest run-on sentence I’ve ever seen and you have the audacity to try to be critical? You can’t even form a concise thought all you did was send me a long emotional rant saying essentially nothing. I haven’t obligated a single person to endorse anything I say. Believe what you want to believe.
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Hello Sir, thanks for blog. I have always doubted this eternal hell doctrine but the universal salvation is new to me. Moreover, there are people whose name isn’t found written in the ‘Book of Life’ that are cast into the lake of fire. (Rev. 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire) Can you kindly explain that in respect to universal salvation?
Thanks
Fred K. Sosu
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Granted! Good article… Thanks for the credit.
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Thank you for the time and research you put into this article. I grew up in southern fundamental independent Baptist churches, where the “fire and brimstone” preachers are held in high regard. In my journey through this life I have had to renegotiate my faith with myself over many of the doctrines of Christianity so taught. Unfortunately some have caused lasting damage not only to myself(within choices I’ve made according to them) but others I tried to share Christ with.
One of the better maxims I now read and study the Bible with is “the Bible was written for us, but not to us.” This means going back to original language, meaning, and what it meant to the audience is was spoken/written to. I always was uncomfortable with the way hell was taught and what it entailed, but could never really explain why. Now that I am older and studying the Bible without preconceived or enforced notions, it not only makes more sense, but makes sharing the hope of Christ much more enjoyable than telling someone they are headed to a eternal torment.
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please clarify. Heaven is not a place but a spiritual realm. A spiritual realm is a place 😂. R u saying heaven doesn’t exist at all? Where do we go after death then. Please explain where people who die righteous in Christ go, and please explain where people who actively reject Christ go. And what happens to both ultimately in the end.
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A spiritual realm is NOT a place because a place is limited to a specific location and matters of the spirit are not bound by physical boundaries. That’s the point. To suggest that God is located in a place is to also suggest that God is limited to that place. God is not bound to or limited by time, space, or matter. There are realities that transcend the physical and a good example of such realities is the act of prayer. No one can locate or measure prayers because prayer is a spiritual act. Sure, you can see someone bending their knees or possibly clutching their hands but can you see their actual prayer? Can you navigate its path to God’s ears? Don’t be cheeky.
I never stated that “heaven” doesn’t exist but people assume what they think heaven means is universally understood. But I’d argue that heaven is more misunderstood than most realize. The Apostle Paul who himself was caught up to the 3rd heaven NEVER mentions heaven as a place that people go to after death. It was a vision not an actual physical experience. Then Jesus told us that NO ONE has gone up to heaven except for Him that cam from heaven (speaking of Himself) obviously) but this hasn’t stopped millions of Christians from believing that they will go to some magical sky kingdom when they die. This is no different from the idea of rich people living in a gated community and the poor cast out. The Christian heaven appeals to the human flesh and that is why so many people believe it. True heaven is oneness with God and one can only attain that in earnest. It is not possible for one to know God in full measure in this life. Our God experience is but a fraction of what there is to know and understand about God. There is no magical kingdom somewhere in outer space with streets of gold and babies flying around playing harps. Those are all depictions of man’s imagination.
Where do we go after death? We don’t go anywhere except for the grave.
Ecclesiastes 9:2 All things come alike to all: One event happens to the righteous and the wicked;
What is this one event that happens to the righteous and the wicked?
Ecclesiastes 9:10 Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with your might; for there is no work or device or knowledge or wisdom IN THE GRAVE WHERE YOU ARE GOING.
Everyone dies and goes to sheol/hades (the place of the dead) but it’s really not a place it’s more like a state. Where were you before you were born? Before you were conceived? You was nowhere because you didn’t exist. At death, we all go back to being nonexistence that is until the resurrection. There are two resurrection events: a resurrection to life and a resurrection to judgment.
The righteous rise in the resurrection to life where they are raised in immortal spiritual bodies and live with Christ in the kingdom of God on earth. Later, the wicked and unbelieving nations will rise in the resurrection to judgment where God will judge the world in righteousness.
Isaiah 26:9 With my soul I have desired You in the night, Yes, by my spirit within me I will seek You early; For WHEN YOUR JUDGMENTS ARE IN THE EARTH, THE INHABITANTS OF THE WORLD WILL LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS.
No one is righteous because of their own deeds for God has subjected us all over to disobedience so that He may have mercy on all. Everyone will be counted righteous because of Christ in the same way that we all came under judgment because of Adam’s transgression. I struggle with the idea that someone can reject Christ. Did Israel as a nation not reject Christ? Yet Paul declares that ALL Israel shall be saved. How do you respond to this?
In the end, God will be all in all.
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Like I said I agree with the universalism view. But you take things too far when you deny the trinity, free will, which are both heavily biblically supported. You also say repentance is stupid when Jesus literally tells us to repent in prayer.. if nobody is alive after death how can Jesus take the spirits in shoel to god and preach to them if they are asleep? The sleep state is for the physical body.? If Free Will Doesn’t Exist, Why Does Scripture Call People to Choose?
“Choose this day whom you will serve” – Joshua 24:15
“Repent and believe the gospel” – Mark 1:15
“Come to me, all who are weary” – Matthew
11:28
If we’re just puppets, these commands are meaningless — God is playing both sides of the conversation.
→ But Scripture treats humans as moral agents with the capacity to love, reject, surrender, or rebel. Why Believe in Jesus Now if It Changes Nothing?
If:
…then why not live however you want and just
“get fixed” later?
→ That’s not gospel — that’s spiritual nihilism. Your Logic Falls Apart Like This:
This system contradicts Scripture, justice, and
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I take things too far when I deny the trinity and free will which are both heavily biblically supported… YET, you failed to quote a single scripture to back up this claim. I can defend my position but you haven’t posed anything to defend. You’re just making bold claims and posting other people’s ideas.
Quote me where I say, “repentance is stupid”? Misquoting me or misrepresenting what I say is something you need to correct.
You take one scripture and annihilate dozens of other scriptures just to cling to a fanciful idea about death. 1 Peter 3:19 can be a difficult scripture to comprehend but scripture does not contradict scripture. When Jesus was nailed to the cross, did He die? You’ll say yes but death according to you is not death at all but merely a change in location. According to you, Jesus was actually alive in SHEOL and preaching to dead spirits (apparently) even though scripture affirms that there is no work (labor or activity), device (reasoning), knowledge (perception or understanding), or wisdom in SHEOL (Ecclesiastes 9:10). Is Ecclesiastes 9:10 not scripture? Or do you believe some scriptures trump other scriptures? Scripture must agree. It cannot contradict. It is not okay to just believe the scriptures we like or agree with. That is not the way to discover truth. When people die, they are dead. There is no middle ground where dead people are only half dead or kind of dead but not really dead. Death is the opposite of being alive and sleep is oftentimes used in scripture as a synonym for death. Being give a choice has NOTHING to do with free will. This is a common argument for free will but it’s a bad argument. People make choices every day, hundreds of choices but not a single choice that anyone makes is made without a cause.
“Choose this day whom you will serve” – Joshua 24:15
“Repent and believe the gospel” – Mark 1:15
“Come to me, all who are weary” – Matthew 11:28
What do any of these scriptures have to do with free will? This is not the free will argument. The free will argument is that a person can come to God, choose God, and do the will of God WITHOUT any intervention or influence from God.
“If we’re just puppets, these commands are meaningless — God is playing both sides of the conversation.”
Wrong. This is an unoriginal argument used against people who criticize free will. Puppets do not have a brain to think nor do they experience emotions. Puppets do not have families and cannot procreate. Puppets cannot cook meals, enjoy the beach, sing songs, paint a picture, go to sleep, dream, or do any of the things that make us human. This is such a weak and cheap argument. God gives commands to leave room for judgment/correction when it is necessary. God knows that we cannot follow His commandments because a fault in one is a fault in all. That is why we need a Savior. God is not playing anything. We are His creation. He has no need to play anything.
“But Scripture treats humans as moral agents with the capacity to love, reject, surrender, or rebel. Why Believe in Jesus Now if It Changes Nothing?”
I’m interested in knowing whose ideas you keep posting…
Nobody can believe in Jesus unless God calls them, draws them, and then begins to work in them. Being called by God to do His work is His achievement not yours.
“Believing in Jesus now doesn’t change your outcome”,
Believing in Jesus now does change one’s outcome. Being resurrected to life or resurrected to judgment. Going through judgment now as opposed to a harsher judgment later. Reigning with Christ in the kingdom of God and serving in leadership in the kingdom. Leading others to righteousness.
“And everyone will be “purified” eventually anyway”,
So God forgiving you of your sins is satisfactory but Him forgiving others or others not following in your pattern isn’t worthy of God’s forgiveness? Why use the word “anyway”? What if this is the way God wants it His way? Is that sufficient for you?
“And sin has no eternal consequence…”
When has sin ever had eternal consequences? This is a manmade concept. Man wants there to be eternal consequences for sin but not for his own sin, only for the sins of others. This is the most selfish and asinine view I have ever read. God says the wages of sin is death but man demands for there to be eternal consequences for sin. Man is not greater than God.
…then why not live however you want and just “get fixed” later?
No person with a truly transformed mind would think of something so foolish. Such a statement proves that no fruit of the spirit exists within a person with this mindset. Submission to God is based solely on fear and retribution of one’s enemies.
“That’s not gospel — that’s spiritual nihilism. Your Logic Falls Apart Like This:”
You have proven anything about my logic by quoting someone else’s ideas. The gospel is the good news of God bringing all of His creation into His glory. No one is left behind.
“God chooses → We have no role:”
Have no role in what? Salvation? Can you save yourself? Can you avoid death and grant yourself immortality? Your parents also chose you and you had no role.
“But all are saved → So the choosing doesn’t matter.”
Yes, choosing matters but all will choose God when Christ puts down all rule, authority, and power (including the godless imaginary free will of men). God will be all in all.
“Believing doesn’t help → So why did God command it?”
Did He command it to people born in North Korea or India?
“No free will → Then no real love, no real trust, no real faith.”
Lies. Free will doesn’t prove love, trust, or faith. It actually destroys it. Love is a product of love. You think my children love me because of free will? That’s ridiculous. My children love me because I loved them first. Their love for me was shaped and influenced by my love for them.
“Fire purifies all → Then why live righteously now?”
Your righteousness is as filthy rags to God. Keep claiming credit for God’s work. Jesus said, everyone will be salted with fire. There is a higher calling for those who God calls to go through the fire first.
“This system contradicts Scripture, justice, and”
Your message cut off but this last statement is absurd. This is not my system. This is God’s system. Everything I claim, I can back up with scripture. Scripture contradicts you and your religion. Who’s justice are you referring to? Yours? You say you believe in universalism but it surely doesn’t sound like it. You sound just like a fundamentalist Christian that thinks they are special and above everyone else.
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You have your head so far up your ass it’s ridiculous. Think for a second just why 99% of Christian’s disagree with you. You’re not really a Christian. God calls upon us as an invitation, not as ‘i choose you but not that guy’. This is some silly shit right here. Again it’s not other people’s ideas it’s scripture brotha man. Your logic is flawed and you cherry picked scripture. That’s all it is at the end of the day. I can sit here and go through scripture sure but your head is too far up your fear there’s no changing your mind. Surely we do not fall asleep after death and that’s an overwhelming consensus. Again, rethink why you’re in the minority here. Once again, you don’t have the secret hidden knowledge of the Bible that somehow the disciples didn’t even know. You’re not special. In order to choose Jesus and god does require a free will. But to u, it wouldn’t really matter if we didn’t or did believe in Jesus. Even though he clearly emphasizes believing in him. But I digress. Like I said go argue with the over arching message of the Bible. AI can help u with that. You’re pretty old so u might not know about it but go to ChatGPT.com and see how your analysis fares with historical consensus, textual scholars, early disciples and the apostles as well as the early churches. You’re wrong. The Holy Spirit guided them in their discernment of texts. God would not have allowed the message to become corrupted. That’s a Muslim thing. I digress. Delete the blog tho bro.
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Delete my blog because you say so? Go kick rocks. I will delete you as you are a complete waste of time and an utter fool.
You are banned. No further comments from you will be approved. You crossed the line with the profanity and this has turned into nothing but a shouting match. You are not worth my time. My time is valuable to me. And filtering all of my responses in CHATGPT is childish behavior. You obviously cannot think for yourself and you need a computer algorithm to do your synthesis. That’s pretty lame but do you! Your last 3 messages were deleted.
Goodbye.
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to say there will be a new heaven and new earth (basically earth and heaven combined) that implies there’s already a heaven
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“to say there will be a new heaven and new earth (basically earth and heaven combined) that implies there’s already a heaven”
Again, I never said there isn’t a heaven, I just don’t agree with the Christian view of a literal heaven in some magical kingdom in outer space somewhere that believers go to after death. Jesus clearly spoke about heaven but not in any way did He speak of it in terms of how Christians view it like their little precious gated community that will cast away non-Christians.
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your claim of satan an adversary is also pretty crazy. He’s trying to solve the “problem of evil” by saying evil was never a problem to begin with – it’s just part of God’s “long game.”
That’s not Scripture. That’s speculative theology dressed up like spiritual insight.
It sounds deep, but it strips:
Satan of accountability.
God of holiness,
Humanity of responsibility.
you think you’re the one out of millions for centuries to unlock the real biblical truth. But how about this. “If anyone thinks he knows something, he does not yet know as he ought to know.” – 1
Corinthians 8:2
Countless people throughout history have studied Scripture faithfully, in Greek, Hebrew, and with prayerful hearts. For someone to come along and basically say:
↓
“Everyone’s been deceived for 2,000 years… you have some interesting insight but your claims about heaven and free will lack solid biblical and HISTORICAL foundation. So in the end you might highlight important nuances or overlooked facts, but your full picture seems too radical and selective to be the final
word.
The most reliable approach balances historical context, original languages, and the whole biblical message as understood by the early church and community of faith. Also the Bible was written by humans and you pointed out different ways to interpret so yes the Bible absolutely can have contradicting views. Why do u think early churches and textual scholars and people writing copies had to come to a consensus? You’re right about hell and the lake of fire. But you are severely mistaken on everything else and I hope you see that I proved you wrong. At this point you might as well take down the whole website cuz you’re not a prophet who has this hidden understanding. You cherry pick verses and don’t look at the over arching broad message of the Bible. I rest my case. Oh I also put my arguments and your website through AI and it came to the same conclusion as me. And AI is definitely smarter than me or you
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“your claim of satan an adversary is also pretty crazy. He’s trying to solve the “problem of evil” by saying evil was never a problem to begin with – it’s just part of God’s “long game.”
1 Peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; BECAUSE YOUR ADVERSARY THE DEVIL walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour.
Satan literally means adversary in biblical usage. I love how you just make things up, claim I said it, then try to argue against your own weird presuppositions. Please quote me where I say, “evil was never a problem to begin with?” God creates evil just like He created the serpent in the garden. God uses evil in the instruction of righteousness. How can there be knowledge of good and evil if evil doesn’t exist?
“That’s not Scripture. That’s speculative theology dressed up like spiritual insight.”
That’s YOUR opinion and I don’t live my life based on what you think I should do. All you have done is copy and paste more of others ideas and post them here as if you have the capacity for individual thought. I can tell what is coming from you and what you are borrowing from other sources. You are just regurgitating their ideas. How original of you.
“It sounds deep, but it strips: Satan of accountability. God of holiness, Humanity of responsibility.”
Excuse me? What does this even mean? What are you even talking about? When have I stated that God doesn’t hold Satan accountable? God’s holiness is never in question and humans will most definitely be held responsible for their actions. Your comments are bordering on slander at this point because nothing you’ve claimed is anything I’ve said. Furthermore, you literally have no clue what you are talking about. You are just spewing nonsense.
“you think you’re the one out of millions for centuries to unlock the real biblical truth. But how about this. “If anyone thinks he knows something, he does not yet know as he ought to know.” – 1 Corinthians 8:2”
No, this is what YOU think. 1 Corinthians 8:2 in context has to do with things offered to idols. In terms of knowledge, we all have knowledge but NONE of us know all things. 1 Corinthians 8:2 applies to all “believers” including YOU! Paul’s point is for us to not let our religion get in the way of loving others. Everyone doesn’t have the same level of knowledge, so we share our knowledge in love not in judgmental arrogance as you. This is what I try to do but it’s difficult when pompous fools come on to my blog and try to check me when they themselves have not even studied these matters much at all. They are just echo chambers spewing regurgitated nonsense. Furthermore, most people don’t even quote anything I say or use scripture to refute anything I claim. They do as you do. They misquote me, quote other people’s ideas, and then casually add Scripture when it’s convenient but everything should be based on Scripture. It was not my initial intent to be crass but you went from being curious to being flat out rude. I have no tolerance for people being rude just for sharing ideas.
“Countless people throughout history have studied Scripture faithfully, in Greek, Hebrew, and with prayerful hearts. For someone to come along and basically say: Everyone’s been deceived for 2,000 years… you have some interesting insight but your claims about heaven and free will lack solid biblical and HISTORICAL foundation. So in the end you might highlight important nuances or overlooked facts, but your full picture seems too radical and selective to be the final word.
I’ve never claimed that everyone’s been deceived but guess what? The Bible does…
Revelation 12:9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, WHO DECEIVES THE WHOLE WORLD; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Hmmmm? The whole world? I wonder who’s left out in the whole world… Scripture affirms that the devil deceives the whole world and the whole world includes EVERYONE. Nobody comes out of deception unless God calls them out of it. Is God calling the world out of deception in this age? Not if many are called but few are chosen. You don’t seem to have much insight at all. What have you offered that counters anything I’ve said about heaven? Absolutely nothing except that you disagree. I asked you to give me one scripture that says believers go to heaven at death and you can’t do it. That’s because your heaven is based on Christian dogma and it is an idol of the mind. My view may not be popular but I’m not in a popularity contest. Free will undermines the sovereignty of God. Read Daniel 4 and tell me King Nebuchadnezzar had free will. He thought he did as you do but God showed Him who was boss. In his arrogance, he thought he built his kingdom but the kingdom was given to him by God so God took it away. Not only did God take it away, he turned King Nebuchadnezzar into a beast of the field in his own mind. Read it for yourself. Free will is a joke.
Daniel 4:32 “……the Most High rules in the kingdom of men, and gives it to whomever He chooses.”
Do you really think your will can supersede, overrule, or thwart the will of God?
Jesus was radical and selective and He was murdered for what He stood for. Are you more like Jesus or are you more like the hypocrites who judged Him because He spoke against their creeds?
“The most reliable approach balances historical context, original languages, and the whole biblical message as understood by the early church and community of faith.”
That certainly sounds like a good secular approach. I see you left God out of the equation as if God needs any of what you’ve claimed. I don’t deny any of what you claim to be useful but it’s certainly not the primary measurement of truth. That’s my take and you don’t have to agree. I don’t need your agreement.
“Also the Bible was written by humans and you pointed out different ways to interpret so yes the Bible absolutely can have contradicting views.”
Let’s not confuse the Bibles of men with the word of God. There are NO contradicting views in God’s word. Bibles however have been changed and manipulated by men over the centuries to support the agenda of the Church so we are tasked with rightly dividing the word of truth. There are different ways to interpret… the right way and the wrong way.
“Why do u think early churches and textual scholars and people writing copies had to come to a consensus? You’re right about hell and the lake of fire. But you are severely mistaken on everything else and I hope you see that I proved you wrong.”
Was their consensus correct though? Changing the Greek word “aionios” which means age-abiding to mean eternal or everlasting seems detrimental when linking it to punishment when that was never what God said. That’s manipulation. Changing the scriptures so the Church can terrorize the ignorant masses into becoming Christians so they can avoid an eternal hell all while giving their money to the Church. The Church still uses this model of manipulation and theft from poor people. I’m severely mistaken on everything else? Everything else such as….? You have not proven me wrong about anything except for maybe my opinion of you.
“At this point you might as well take down the whole website cuz you’re not a prophet who has this hidden understanding. You cherry pick verses and don’t look at the over arching broad message of the Bible. I rest my case.”
I never claimed to be a prophet but I’m not taking anything down. Not everyone thinks and believes as you. This blog has touched the entire globe and if I can help anyone have a better view of God than the view the Christian Church has portrayed, then this blog has been successful in my eyes. I don’t need your approval. I cherry pick verses and don’t look at the overarching broad message of the Bible? How so? I could easily say the same thing about you and I have a clear example of you taking a scripture completely out of it’s context to make a point so you are the cherry picker. This is the easiest argument to claim when one has no argument. I guess according to you, it’s okay to ignore or just flat out denounce the scriptures that contradict our beliefs. You rest your case? You have no case. You are dismissed.
“Oh I also put my arguments and your website through AI and it came to the same conclusion as me. And AI is definitely smarter than me or you.”
So. AI simply forms a consensus of available information that is already on the internet and the internet is full of information that perpetuates Christian dogma. This means nothing. AI isn’t smarter than God. It’s laughable that someone would use AI to defend any argument related to Scripture.
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