The Lake of Fire: This is a symbol…

Part 8

In Part 8, I will be discussing and revealing the true meaning of the lake of fire.

The lake of fire in scripture is definitely an enigma. Unlike hell, the lake of fire and brimstone is actually a part of scripture and this too can be explained. The phrase “lake of fire” appears only 5 times in the whole bible and they are all in the book of Revelations. If you have studied God’s Word for any length of time, you already know that the book of Revelations is probably the most complex and misunderstood book in the bible. Let’s look at all 5 verses that use the phrase “lake of fire”.

Revelation 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a LAKE OF FIRE BURNING WITH BRIMSTONE.

Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the LAKE OF FIRE AND BRIMSTONE, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the LAKE OF FIRE. This is the second death.

 Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the LAKE OF FIRE.

Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the LAKE WHICH BURNETH WITH FIRE AND BRIMSTONE: which is the second death.

Before we go any further, we must understand something that is very important if we are ever going to be able to understand these scriptures. In order to unlock these mysteries, we must first remember that the whole book of Revelations was signified or “symbolized” and we must use spiritual eyes to unlock these biblical truths.

Revelation 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and SIGNIFIED it by his angel unto his servant John:

Strong’s Concordance for the Greek word sēmainō (G4591) translated signified in the above verse is defined as TO GIVE A SIGN, to signify, or indicate.

Some would have you believe that the bible in general is to be taken literally. They say that because someone else told them that and they just believed them without doing any studying on their own. These are the same people that will tell you that Jesus spoke in parables to make the meaning clearer. Jesus spoke in parables to hide the spiritual meaning of His Words. The bible has scriptural truth that should be applied and read literally however, there are countless other truths that are figurative and have a spiritual meaning. Those who cannot understand these things are spiritually blind and incapable of comprehending such things.

The lake of fire isn’t a literal lake of burning flames in which condemned souls are tortured for eternity. Christians of course will disagree with this because they believe that this is literal. But wait a minute; I thought hell was the place that condemned souls went to be tortured for eternity not the lake of fire? Christians will tell me that this is true that the lake of fire is just another description of hell. If that is so, then tell me how it makes any sense for hell to be cast into hell in Revelations 20:14? The lake of fire is a symbol for something spiritual and only a spiritual mind (the mind of Christ) can decipher these things. Remember the parable of plucking out eyes in reference to geenna fire that we just discussed? The lake of fire isn’t literal.

Now let’s look at all the characteristics of the “lake of fire”.

1) This is a list of everything that is cast into the lake of fire” from the 5 verses quoted above from Revelations;

  • the beast and the false prophet, (grouped together because they are grouped like this in the scripture)
  • the devil,
  • death and hell (hades), and (grouped together because they are grouped like this in the scripture)
  • those whose names aren’t written in the book of life.
  • the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars.

2) In 3 out of the 5 verses, the lake of fire is included with brimstone.

3) 2 inanimate things are cast into the lake of fire- death and hell.

Okay, now I’m not going to spend time identifying who some of the characters are because that isn’t the point of this study. That will be the topic for another study later. The purpose of this part of the study is to identify what the lake of fire represents in scripture.

Let’s look at the word fire as it is used in these 5 verses in Revelations. The Greek word pyr is translated as “fire” 74 times in the King James Version. It is used literally and figuratively. This is important because if we misinterpret scripture because we don’t understand when fire is spoken of literally or figuratively, we will not understand the appropriate meaning.

Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with FIRE:

In this scripture above, John the Baptist is comparing two things: physical baptism with spiritual baptism. He (John the Baptist) is the physical and Jesus Christ is the spiritual. Notice that John the Baptist baptizes with water and Jesus Christ baptizes with the Holy Ghost and with fire. Do we really think that the fire stated here is a literal burning fire? This scripture is referring to believers since it is believers who get baptized. Unbelievers do not get baptized. So if this is for believers, why would Jesus Christ use literal fire to baptize believers? This fire is spiritual fire not literal fire and it applies to everyone. Matthew 3:11 is actually a parable not that it shouldn’t be interpreted literally, it also has a spiritual meaning. In the days of Noah, the flood was a symbol of water baptism of the world. Only a few were saved (8 total) during that time. There will come a time when Christ will baptize the world in spiritual fire save another few (God’s Elect).

Other examples of fire being used as a symbol or figuratively;

Romans 12:20 Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of FIRE on his head. [Heaping literal coals of fire on anyone’s head would hurt them; this is clearly a figurative statement.]

Jamess 3:6 And the tongue is a FIRE, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell. [Surely we know that the tongue isn’t a literal fire but the evil (gossiping, cursing, lying, etc.) that comes out of it surely is fiery and can spread out of control like a forest fire.]

Revelations 1:14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of FIRE; [I think we get the point and realize how absurd it would be to think that Christ has eyes of literal fireballs. This verse says “as a flame of fire” not “were a flame of fire”.]

1 Peter 1:7 That the TRIAL OF YOUR FAITH, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be TRIED WITH FIRE, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ: [A true believers faith cannot literally be tried with real fire. The faith of the saints is being compared to gold being tried through fire. The fire represents whatever is trying your faith (Trust in Christ).  All true believers (the Elect/the Few) are those that overcome all of the trials and tribulations of life. 2 Timothy 3:12 says Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. This is something that really isn’t taught in the church today. How many of you are familiar with these scriptures? 1 Peter 4:12-13 Beloved, think it not strange concerning the FIERY TRIAL WHICH IS TO TRY YOU, as though some strange thing happened unto you: But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are PARTAKERS OF CHRIST’S SUFFERINGS; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy. 

Here is the absolute best verse of all the verses including the word fire;

Hebrews 12:29 For our God is a consuming FIRE. [God isn’t a literal fire but a spiritual fire.]

So what is the purpose of this spiritual lake of fire? I will show you from the scriptures;

1 Corinthians 3:13 EVERY MAN’S WORK shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the FIRE SHALL TRY EVERY MAN’S WORK of what sort it is. [Paul is clearly talking to believers but this verse says “every man’s work” so this is not talking about believers only but everyone. We can be sure that this is referring to all men because Paul tells us that the “day” shall declare it. That particular day is the Day of Judgment –God’s purging fiery judgment on all mankind. On this day, every man’s work good or bad will be exposed.

1 Corinthians 3:14-15 If ANY MAN’S WORK ABIDE which he hath built thereupon, HE SHALL RECEIVE A REWARDIf ANY MAN’S WORK SHALL BE BURNED, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as BY FIRE. [This is an important verse to understand because this verse is typically never discussed in church. If any man’s work shall be burned he shall suffer loss but he himself shall be saved. Did you get that last part? After God does all the casting into the lake of fire (which is His fire consuming Spirit) He will purge out all of the evil works (suffer loss) but the person will be saved. Let’s go back to 1 Corinthians 3:11-12,

For other FOUNDATION CAN NO MAN LAY THAN THAT IS LAID, which is JESUS CHRISTNow if ANY MAN BUILD UPON THIS FOUNDATION gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubbleNotice that Paul tells us that we build upon this foundation. This foundation is Christ and we build on it with all of our faith, beliefs, doctrines, and actions. Notice that Paul makes a comparison between gold, silver, and precious stones to wood, hay, and stubble. If I put the first 3  real substances (gold, silver, precious stones) in a real literal fire, the gold, silver, and precious stones will become refined because that is the practical purpose of fire. Now if I do that same for the last 3 real substances (wood, hay, and stubble) in a real fire, they will burn up because these materials are combustible. What is the spiritual message that Paul is trying to teach us? All of these substances represent the things that we build upon our foundation. The gold, silver, and precious stones represent the spiritual and godly attributes that we have obtained through our walk with Christ if we indeed are following Christ and allowing him to transform our lives. These things will be remain and a reward will be received. The wood, hay, and stubble represent our carnal nature, evil thoughts, and lustful desires. These things will be figuratively burned out and some will suffer loss during this process. What does it mean to suffer loss? Hasn’t Christ already provided us with some words of advice about this matter?

Luke 9:25 For what is a man advantaged, if he gain the whole world, and LOSE himself, or be cast away?

The phrase “suffer loss” as it is used in 1 Corinthians 3:15 is translated from the Greek word zēmioō and it means to affect with damage. The word “lose” as it is used by Christ in Luke 9:25 comes from the same Greek word zēmioō. There’s more;

Matthew 16:24-25 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, LET HIM DENY HIMSELF, and take up his cross, and follow me. For WHOSOEVER WILL SAVE HIS LIFE SHALL LOSE IT: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

The word lose in Matthew 16:25 is translated from a different Greek word and it is “apollymi”. This word is also translated as the word perish and destroy. So what does all of this mean? Remember that in 1 Corinthians 3:15, we are told that people that have their work burned will suffer loss but they will be saved. This tells us that people are not permanently destroyed or perished but there are many people that are stubborn, mean to others, have uncontrollable sins of the flesh, addictions, and all types of work that make up our carnality. When people live for the carnal man, this is the person that you become. When you deny yourself, you give up or LOSE these things but for those who do not give them up for Christ in this life, they will suffer loss because they will not want to give them up willingly. It is NOT easy denying ones self. It is difficult to die to the pulls and lusts of the flesh. This is what suffering loss means and this process will not be the same for everyone because the works of each individual person will be different. What I can promise you is that this “suffering loss” has nothing to do with being literally tortured with real fire in the evil pagan hell of Christianity.

So we can be sure that the lake of fire isn’t a literal fire with all of these examples of scripture telling us about the spiritual purpose of fire. Physical fire can only effect physical things. If a person lusts with their eyes, there eyes have nothing to do with the lust. The eye is the physical member of the body that we use to lust. The lust comes from sin that lies in the heart of a person. There is no possible way for literal physical fire to have any effect on the sins of the heart. Only God can use spiritual fire to purge us of having sinning hearts.

Malachi 3:2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? FOR HE IS LIKE A REFINER’S FIRE, AND LIKE FULLERS’ SOAPThis is a divine action from God and it is likened to the refining capabilities of fire.

This is what Christians fail to realize. Just because hell isn’t real doesn’t mean that people will not be held accountable for their actions. These scriptures clearly show us that we will be judged by the works that we build upon our foundation. I am fully aware that modern Christians need to believe in hell because it makes sense for them. It makes them think that people will not go unpunished for doing evil. They forget that everyone is evil and they become self-righteous thinking that they no longer need to be held accountable for their sins because they say religious things like, “I’m covered by the blood” which I guess makes it okay for them to still have wicked hearts while condemning others. Reminds me of a group of people that Christ had to deal with during the days he walked the earth. The problem here is that man takes responsibility for God’s work. God created life the way it is and God is ultimately responsible for His creation.

The lake of fire represents the process of God making things right with His creation of humanity. The creation of man is not some experiment that has gone horribly wrong by God. This kind of thinking belittles and undermines the sovereignty of God when His ways are lowered down to the level of a man. Contrary to what Christians think, God is in control of everything. The lake of fire is about judgment but this is a righteous judgment and not a grand display of evil where the souls of the wicked are tormented literally in a literal lake of hell fire. The teaching of hell is the most evil doctrine ever concocted by the devil and sadly, Christians hold steadfast to this doctrine of devils.

When we really look at God’s Word, it is hard to ignore the truth; Isaiah 26:9 With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy JUDGMENTS are in the earth, the INHABITANTS OF THE WORLD will learn righteousnessThere will come a time (not in this life) when all the inhabitants (meaning everyone that has ever lived) will learn righteous. Now isn’t the time for this to happen and don’t think for one second that things aren’t working in God’s perfect timing.

For those of you still doubting that this lake of fire isn’t meant to be a spiritually purifying lake of fire need to explain the addition of the word “brimstone” in 3 of the 5 scriptures in Revelation. Has anyone ever taken the time to really think about the inclusion of this added element? In 2 verses, brimstone isn’t included but in the other 3 verses brimstone is included. Are there two different lakes of fire? We should know from the four gospel accounts of Jesus that the inclusion or exclusion of events doesn’t add to or take away from the event. Scripture doesn’t separate these descriptions of the lake of fire as being distinctive of two separate lakes of fire. We can be sure that there is only one lake of fire due to the fact that there is only one God and the lake of fire represents God’s judgment; so we can surmise that there is only one lake of fire. So then, what exactly is this added element called brimstone?

The word “brimstone” is in the King James Version 14 times; 7 in the Old Testament (Hebrew) and 7 in the New Testament (Greek). Brimstone is an archaic word for sulfur. Let’s see some examples of how this word is used in scripture in addition to the two we’ve already looked at in the book of Revelations;

Genesis 19:24 Then the Lord rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah BRIMSTONE and fire from the Lord out of heaven;

Psalm 11:6 Upon the wicked he shall rain snares, fire and BRIMSTONE, and an horrible tempest: this shall be the portion of their cup.

Luke 17:29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and BRIMSTONE from heaven, and destroyed them all.

Revelation 9:18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the BRIMSTONE, which issued out of their mouths.

There are other scriptures that include the word brimstone but the interesting thing to note is that almost all the biblical use of the word is connected with the word fire. It is also interesting that this word appears to be in close relationship to God’s judgement of the wicked. What you probably haven’t considered is why brimstone (sulfur) is even included in the first place? Why does God use brimstone in connection with fire? Well if you were paying attention, you already know that this fire is a spiritual fire and there is no logical explanation to jump back in the realm of the literal. This brimstone (sulfur) also is spiritual and we need to find out what it represents.

The word brimstone is translated from the Greek word “theion” and it is defined in biblical use as divine incense, because burning brimstone was regarded as having power to purify, and to ward off disease. Now does this definition of brimstone sound like it is meant to go along with the evil torture and torment of the lake of fire that burns for ever and ever and ever as believed by the whole Christian church? Let’s be logical here. The lake of fire obviously has a purpose. Some believe that the lake of fire is hell (even though hell is cast in it) and a very small few know that this lake of fire is indeed spiritual with a purifying purpose. Now I know people hate to be wrong and so many people will reject the truth because it goes against everything they’ve been taught. What people fail to realize is that the bible has been translated and taught in a way to scare people in to wanting or seeking salvation on their own will. We are not capable nor will we ever be capable of saving ourselves hence the well-known scripture that tells us that salvation is a gift from God through faith and not worldly religious works.

How about I take this a little bit further; the Greek word “theion” is related to another Greek word “theios” which is used 3 times in scripture twice as divine and once as “Godhead”. Let’s look at the scriptures;

Acts 17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the GODHEAD is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man’s device. [Note: the word Godhead is a poor translation of the Greek word “theion” and this is another example of the King James translators inserting words to fit their interpretation. There isn’t any scriptural justification for this word to be translated to any word other than the word divine as it is translated this way in the other two scriptures.]

2 Peter 1:3 According as his DIVINE power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

2 Peter 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the DIVINE nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Is the light turning on yet? Do you not see from the very Words of God what is being revealed to you? If you deny these truths then the Spirit of Christ is not in you. It should be perfectly clear that the lake of fire and brimstone isn’t a literal lake of boiling hot lava created for the sole purpose of torturing people for eternity. You can go on believing this doctrine of devils if you choose but you are in fact telling yourself who your real spiritual father really is.

So let’s take another look at all the things that are cast into the lake of fire which is now revealed to have a spiritual, purifying, and divine purpose;

 Revelation 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

The beast and the false prophet- in the Christian church, it is commonly believed that this beast and false prophet represent the “Antichrist” and his beast kingdom. This theory is unscriptural and the beast and false prophet are both symbols and are not real people. If the beast and false prophet represent real people, wouldn’t they be covered in Revelation 20:15 (whosoever was not found written in the book of life) or Revelation 21:8 (the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars)?

Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

The devil is cast into the lake of fire, but the world of the Christian church teachers that hell is the devils home as if he will be the ruler of hell. This is nothing but a horror story with the devil as the villain. If you’ve read my paper titled, “Satan: God’s Perfect Instrument of Evil” then you will understand that Satan was created by God for a very important and divine purpose. In order to be created in the image of God, the knowledge of evil is necessary hence the purpose of Satan. This isn’t taught in the Christian church. The devil will not be literally tormented in the lake of fire day and night for ever and ever as the King James bible suggests. If you remember from Part 5: Torment: Literal or Spiritual? the word translated as tormented in Revelation 20:10 comes from the Greek word “basanizō” which is also translated as pain, toss, vex, and toil. This truth alone should tell you that the meaning of this verse has been distorted with the word tormented as many with demented minds think this is referring to literal physical torment. The devil or Satan is a spiritual creature and there is nothing that physical fire can do to harm a spiritual creature.

Exodus 3:2 And THE ANGEL OF THE LORD APPEARED UNTO HIM IN A FLAME OF FIRE out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed. The angels of God are also spiritual creatures and as you can see, physical fire doesn’t harm them. This is additional proof that the lake of fire doesn’t represent a literal lake of fire as the Christian church believes. What God decides to do with the devil in the lake of fire also will have a divine purpose. I do not believe that God destroys any life He creates and the devil will no longer be “the adversary” when God ushers in the new order of things to be.

Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

If we are following along with the understanding of the spiritual, we know that the lake of fire represents God’s divine process of purification. For those that continue to use their carnal brains contending that this is literal, explain how death and hell (the grave) can be literally picked up and cast into the lake of fire?

Luke 9:27 But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not TASTE OF DEATH, till they see the kingdom of God. Christ says that some will not taste of death. Does he literally mean that they won’t literally taste death with their tongues? What if they want a little ketchup and mustard with their side order of death? This is foolishness and the thinking of carnal minded Christians is equally foolish.

We are told that the process of death and hell being cast in the lake of fire IS the second death. What constitutes death? In literal physical death for humanity, life ceases. The second death is symbolic in this scripture because death and hell are not real people nor are they physical beings that can physically die.

Revelation 6:8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: AND HIS NAME THAT SAT ON HIM WAS DEATH, AND HELL FOLLOWED WITH HIM. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth. Can you not see that this is symbolic language or do you think that death and hell are literally riding around on horses?

When a car stops working, we liken the cars battery to being dead. Does this mean that the car was alive at first? Of course not. In symbolic death, something ends or ceases. The purpose of the lake of fire is to purify but it will also purge or put an end to all things that aren’t pure. God will be destroying both death and hell (the grave) and in addition to this, the very nature of sinning humanity.

1 Corinthians 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is DEATHThis verse proves that the second death is not a literal physical death otherwise, death would not be destroyed. Death is likened as an enemy and death remains and enemy until all are given life. If any person remains dead, then death still has power which would contradict this verse.

1 Corinthians 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on INCORRUPTION, and this mortal shall have put on IMMORTALITY, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, DEATH IS SWALLOWED UP IN VICTORY

1 Corinthians 15:55 O DEATH, where is thy sting? O GRAVE [Hell – hadēs], where is thy victory?

Death will be no more and Hell (the grave – hadēs) will be done away with seeing that all humanity will be made incorruptible (immortal).

Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

These last two verses in Revelation are dealing with the purification of sinning humanity. What is the purpose of purifying in the first place? To make “pure”, right? What has to happen in order for a man to be made pure? To be tortured for all eternity? Of course not. I sure hope this is as easy for you as it is for me to understand… We will be purified of sin. The scriptures even go so far as to make a list but surely not a comprehensive list; Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving [this includes everyone who doesn’t believe God will save all mankind], and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their PART in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. [All these things will be burned and purified right out of the sinner and notice that they shall have their (PART – not whole or eternity in the lake of fire). Remember 1 Corinthians 3:15 if any man’s work [behaviors, thoughts, beliefs] shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: BUT HE HIMSELF SHALL BE SAVED; yet so as by fire (the lake of fire).]

This whole process is the second death and the true spiritual meaning of the lake of fire.

In Part 9, I will be explaining the true spiritual meaning of the parable of the rich man and Lazarus.

Click the link to go to Part 9: The Parable of the rich man and Lazarus Explained

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81 thoughts on “The Lake of Fire: This is a symbol…

      1. I agree with you that the lake of fire is symbolic and has the meaning of purification. But I do not agree that the beast and false prophet in revelation are not literal people. If you read the verse you can clearly see they are not literal animals but ways to describe someone who will deceive the world along with someone else. It is clear they are people who will exist now or in the near future to deceive us away from God.

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      2. I never stated that the beast was a literal animal but the “beast” is certainly NOT one literally person. The beast is YOU, ME, and EVERY single person (save Christ) that has ever lived. The beast is the carnal man of sin that lives in all of us. The false prophet is also NOT a one man or one person that deceives the world. The “false prophet” is a symbol for the entire man-made false religious system that includes Christianity. What you believe may be “clear” to you but what is clear to you doesn’t automatically equate to truth. Now, I will humbly admit that I do not know everything and I clearly can be wrong about some things, however, I am man enough to admit that. With that said, I am convinced in what I believe not because I like it but rather because I have spent hours studying the subject and the scriptures harmonize with what I believe. I will be happy to discuss this with you further if you would like or we can simply agree to disagree. Either is fine by me and I wish you the best in your study and walk with God…

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      3. Sir this word has freed me. I am speechless. Thank you, i have said if God is so horrible to torment someone for eternity, i will not serve him,and i also said i will not be scared into salvation either by this so call literal fire. I was a street minister for years, and i turned because i couldn’t grasp the torment for eternity doctrine. Sir your obedience to teach this eye opening truth has changed my life in the twinkling of an eye. God bless you thank you

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      4. Mr. Randolph, I’m just curious, how do you get around Daniel 12:2? It clearly states that some will awaken to everlasting contempt.

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      5. Hi Austin and thanks for commenting… You are correct in stating that Daniel 12:2 clearly states that some will awaken to everlasting contempt but what isn’t clear is if the word “everlasting” is a proper translation of the original word in the Hebrew. The word in question here is the Hebrew word “`owlam” and this is the word that many bible translators translated as the English word “everlasting”. Everlasting is NOT a proper translation of the Hebrew word “`owlam” and I have already written an article about this in Part 4 of my False Doctrine of Hell paper titled, “The Truth about Eternal & Everlasting” and you can go to it here… https://therealgospelofchrist.com/the-truth-about-eternal-everlasting/.

        With that said, not all bibles translate Daniel 12:2 as it is written in the version you quoted and here are a few examples…

        `And the multitude of those sleeping in the dust of the ground do awake, some to life age-during, and some to reproaches — to abhorrence age-during. (Young’s Literal Translation)

        From those sleeping in the soil of the ground many shall awake, these to eonian life and these to reproach for eonian repulsion. (The Concordant Version of the Old Testament)

        and, many of the sleepers in the dusty ground, shall awake,—these, [shall be] to age-abiding life, but, those, to reproach, and age-abiding abhorrence; (Rotherham’s Emphasized Bible)

        Notice that these translations use the words age-during, eonian, and age-abiding as the meaning for the Hebrew word “`owlam”. If “`owlam” truly means “everlasting” then everywhere the Hebrew word “`owlam” appears in the Old Testament, we should be able to insert the word “everlasting”. Let’s take a look at Leviticus 16:34;

        And this shall be an EVERLASTING (Hebrew –`owlam) statute unto you, to make an atonement for the children of Israel for all their sins once a year. And he did as the Lord commanded Moses.

        Now let’s be practical here… Christians represent the children of God in modern times so do Christian pastors sacrifice goats to atone for the sins of their congregations? That’s absurd… Jesus Christ is the permanent sacrifice for sins…

        Hebrews 10:10 By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

        The statute of atoning for Israel’s sins was an AGE-DURING, EOANIAN, AGE-ABIDING statute that obviously came to an end.

        Now let’s take a look at Daniel 12:2 again according to the NKJV…

        And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, Some to everlasting life, Some to shame and everlasting contempt.

        According to the ideology of Christendom, Daniel 12:2 represents two groups of people going to two different eternal destinations – one group for the righteous and the other for the wicked and unbelieving. What I find interesting is that people have a tendency to isolate one verse without reading further to understand the writer’s entire thought. So let’s continue reading into Daniel 12:3;

        Those who are wise shall shine Like the brightness of the firmament, And those who turn many to righteousness Like the stars forever and ever.

        How do you make any sense of this verse if we are to interpret Daniel 12:2 the way most bible translations read? If the righteous are already in the place for good people, who are the “MANY” that are turned to righteousness as we just read in Daniel 12:3? Notice again that there are still two groups of people – those who are wise and those being turned to righteousness. When we properly translate “`owlam” as AGE-DURING, EONIAN, or AGE-ABIDING, the truth is revealed to the reader. The contempt (judgment) is age-lasting only because the purpose of judgment is to correct. Once correction takes place (or being turned to righteousness – sounds a lot like repentance doesn’t it?) the process of correction isn’t everlasting it comes to an end hence the true meaning of the Hebrew word “`owlam”.

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    1. Actually the lake of fire is slavery aka eternal bandage in chains. Where one will hunger and thirst and be weary but shall have no rest or peace.
      Habakkuk 2:12-13 Woe to him that buildeth a town with blood, and stablisheth a city by iniquity!
      Behold, is it not of the Lord of hosts that the people shall LABOUR in the very FIRE, and the people shall weary themselves for very vanity?

      Daniel 2:12 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting CONTEMPT.

      A lake of fire where someone burns forever is not in the old testament.
      But captivity is mentioned over and over. Israelites will rule this planet ie 144000 12 gates for the 12 tribes of israel in Revelations as the kingdom of Heaven. Gentiles will serve by choice or get cast into the lake of fire (brutal hardcore slavery for eternity). The kingdom of heaven will not float down to earth and magically roads of gold will appear. No the Kingdom will be built by the hands of the gentiles who has continually oppressed and enslaved God’s people. The children of Israel served 7 captivitys. Of which the Last 4 were mentioned in the book of Daniel. The captivitys go as follows:
      1. Egypt
      2. Persian/me do
      3. Assyrian
      4. Babylon
      5. Greece
      6. Rome
      7. America

      Isaiah 14:2 And the people shall take them, and bring them to their place: and the house of Israel shall POSSESS THEM in the land of the LORD for servants and handmaids: and they shall take them captives, whose captives they were; and they shall rule over their oppressors.

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      1. The lake of fire is NO such thing as you claim. Revelation is a SYMBOLIC book concerning the testimony of Jesus Christ and one must have spiritual wisdom to discern its symbolism. Being hungry and thirsty are characteristics of mortal humans and it is NOT possible for a mortal person to be literally hungry and thirsty and not pass out or die from the lack of proper nutrition at some point.

        Anyone can pick out verses and isolate them to mean whatever one wants them to mean. You quote Daniel 12:2 as if you have any clue as to what this is referring to. Everlasting is not a proper translation for the Hebrew word `owlam.

        Let me show you how this verse is translated in a better rendering of the Hebrew;

        Daniel 12:2 `And the multitude of those sleeping in the dust of the ground do awake, some to life age-during, and some to reproaches — to abhorrence age-during. Young’s Literal Translation.

        If you really think that this CONTEMPT is everlasting, who are the wise and who are the MANY that are turned to righteousness as it is written in the very next verse of Daniel 12:3?

        Daniel 12:2 is speaking about the same TWO resurrection events that Christ speaks about in John 5:28-29 and in Matthew 25:46. Sadly, most translations improperly translate the Greek word “aionios” as eternal which is a grave error.

        Your understanding about the Jews and the Gentiles in relationship to the kingdom of God is way off. God’s elect will reign with Christ on earth for 1,000 years all before anyone else is even resurrected so how will Gentiles build God’s kingdom? In Matthew 21:31, Jesus tells the JEWS that publicans (tax-collectors) and harlots will go into the kingdom before them. God caused the Israelite’s to experience captivity due to their refusal to obey His commandments and for following after false gods. It has nothing to do with Gentile nations.

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      2. Some of my favorite verses to illustrate the absurdity of an actual fire are

        24 “And they shall go out and look on the dead bodies of the men who have rebelled against me. For their worm shall not die, their fire shall not be quenched, and they shall be an abhorrence to all flesh
        (Isaiah 66:24 ESV)

        47 And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into hell, 48 ‘where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched
        (Mark 9:47-48 ESV)

        Clearly, “their worm” is metaphorical, and so it stands to reason that the “fire”, spoken of in the same sentence, is also metaphorical. In my opinion, the “worm” represents a person’s desires and lusts. After all, in the Mark 9 verses, Jesus was just talking about tearing out your eye if it offends you. Now, how could a person’s eye offend? Obviously, through lust and desire. Jesus is telling them that it is best to root out your lusts now, rather than have these lusts burn within you forever, unable to satisfy them. Again, in my view, the fire is “anger” – the anger of frustration of being unable to fulfill the lusts you have nurtured within for so long.

        Fire being equated with anger is replete throughout the Bible.

        1 And the people complained in the hearing of the Lord about their misfortunes, and when the Lord heard it, his anger was kindled, and the fire of the Lord burned among them and consumed some outlying parts of the camp
        (Numbers 11:1 ESV)

        22 For a fire is kindled by my anger,
        and it burns to the depths of Sheol,
        devours the earth and its increase,
        and sets on fire the foundations of the mountains
        (Deuteronomy 32:22 ESV)

        21 Therefore, when the Lord heard, he was full of wrath;
        a fire was kindled against Jacob
        (Psalms 78:21 ESV)

        27 Behold, the name of the Lord comes from afar,
        burning with his anger, and in thick rising smoke;
        his lips are full of fury
        (Isaiah 30:27 ESV)

        and on and on …

        Granted, there are as many verses that use fire to represent purification.

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    2. Bless you all but there is not great understanding in this. Death and Hell are real spirits. I have seen them mounting their horses and they looked very tired. i have seen them leaving their victims that became joyful and alive for the first time. I have also met 3 people that have been to the place of torment. It smelled nasty. people who were known to them were being constantly tormented for years and years and years. there was no escape, no relief from their suffering. and there is a good testimony on youtube. I did not know Ron Reagan but it is sweet testimony, worth listening to aside from this argument. it will make you cry. I agree with you that there are also many symbols in the bible. I am glad that you spend lots of time looking at Y’shuah and the word of El. I know olam has 3 different meanings but in this case of eternal torment, I am certain it means eternal torment, not the world. but please don’t fight about all this beloveds. how can unbelievers that read these arguings believe if we fight? I love you all.

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      1. Kaytee, “death” and “THE GRAVE” not hell are likened as “enemies” prepared for battle. That is why they are on horses… This is NOT literal, it is symbolic and figurative. You do not have to be a scholar to see this or do you think Jesus really has a literal sword coming out of his mouth? This is symbolism… I have met hundreds of people that claim to have gone to hell or as you call it, the place of torment but it doesn’t really mean anything. People tend to believe the things that they like or the things they are convinced are true and then they repeat and share with other people the things they like and believe. It matters little is what they like or what they believe is a lie. YouTube is not a source of truth but it does have information. You have to be careful how you absorb the information you allow to enter your brain. There is good information and there is bad information but it’s up to each individual person to decide what is good for them and what is bad. I have never even heard of Ron Reagan until you mentioned him. I do not believe anyone’s testimony about seeing hell or having NDE’s. The people that claim to have these experiences are either lying or they are just delusional. In regards to the Hebrew word `owlam, you simply have no clue what you are talking about. If `owlam is used to described a period of time that has a beginning and an end, it CANNOT be used to describe a period of time that has no beginning or no end. That is what is commonly referred to as an oxymoron. Consider this;

        Genesis 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

        The word “ALWAYS” is translated from the Hebrew word `owlam and in this context, it is referring to a period of time with a beginning and an end as in the 120 years. Does God’s spirit strive with man for all eternity? NO, because the breath of life that is in every person returns to God at death. This earthly life is age-lasting because life on earth ends at death. `Owlam means age-lasting or pertaining to the ages.

        Also, in the King James Bible, `owlam is translated as the world “WORLD” in 5 scriptures; Psalm 73:12, Psalm 90:2, Ecclesiastes 3:11, Isaiah 45:17, and Isaiah 64:4. I’ll comment on a couple of them…

        Psalm 73:12 Behold, these are the ungodly, who prosper in the WORLD (Hebrew – `owlam); they increase in riches. (Do the ungodly prosper for all eternity?)

        Psalm 90:2 Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world (Hebrew – `owlam), even from everlasting (Hebrew – `owlam) to everlasting (Hebrew – `owlam), thou art God.

        Hmmmm? `Owlam is translated as “world” and “everlasting” in this scripture. What the hell does everlasting to everlasting even mean? That is nonsense and its essentially the same as trying to define square circles. God is God throughout all ages… from age to age, God is God.

        It is not a bad thing to have a discussion or to even have a disagreement but belief is completely dependent upon God working in a person’s life. I suppose that we would all just get along if we endorsed everything you believe right? I’m completely fine with you believing whatever you want to believe. I won’t damn you to some pagan hell or have you burned at the stake.

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  1. Beautifully done. I stumbled upon this site after coming to many of these same conclusions, but I must say that I had not quite formulated them so well as you have managed here.

    I did want to make one comment on your statement,

    “The wood, hay, and stubble represent our carnal nature, evil thoughts, and lustful desires. These things will be figuratively burned out and some will suffer loss during this process. I do not know and I can not describe what this process of “suffering loss” will be like. The phrase “suffer loss” is translated from the Greek word zēmioō and it means to affect with damage.”

    I feel that the damage is a disruption to the continuity of “who you are”. When our personalities and character have undergone a willing transformation over time, as we nurture Christlike qualities, little change will be needed in the purification process. We will feel a continuity of being who we are. But, when we have nurtured “carnal nature, evil thoughts, and lustful desires”, the purification process becomes major surgery on the soul – a drastic altering of our personality and character and desires. Surely, the individual will feel as though they are not the same person. It will be almost as if the old person has been destroyed and new one created. Their memories will be what ties them to who they used to be, but they will not feel the same. How could they?

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    1. Ron, I have to say that I agree with you and it is ironic that I just made an update to my post about the meaning of “geenna” and how it relates to us experiencing loss. Here is the section from that post:

      [Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to DESTROY BOTH SOUL AND BODY IN HELL.

      Here is another verse that Christians will quote and they will only talk about the part that says hell. Let’s look at this verse a little deeper. Remember that we have already determined that geenna is symbolic for judgment by fire and not real fire. Notice that in this verse, we are told not to fear them (men) which can KILL the body but are not able to KILL the soul but rather fear him (God) which is able to DESTROY both soul and body in hell (geenna).

      What is a body? Well of course this is referring to a human body that can physically die.

      What is a soul? This translation can be a little confusing so I’ll explain it. The word soul is translated from the Greek word “psyche” and it is translated as the word life in many verses. It is defined as the breath or breath of life and if we remember back in Genesis when man was created, God formed man from the dust of the earth and breathed into his nostrils, the “breath of life” and man become a LIVING SOUL.

      So with this understanding, we know that men can kill the body but not the soul (life) of a man but God can kill both body and soul (life) right? No, pay attention to all of the words, God doesn’t kill the body and soul (life); God is able to DESTROY both body and soul (life) in hell (geenna). The word “destroy” is very crucial in understanding the meaning of Matthew 10:28. The word “destroy” is translated from the Greek word “apollymi” and this word is also translated as the words perish and LOSE. So what is significant about God being able to cause us to LOSE our body and soul (life) in hell (geenna)?

      Matthew 10:39 HE THAT FINDETH HIS LIFE SHALL LOSE (Greek – apollymi) IT: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.

      Geenna judgment is about judging ourselves, dying to self, and mortifying the works of the flesh. Believers must LOSE their life for Christ or God will cause you to LOSE your life in the spiritual judgment of geenna when God judges the world. Although Christ doesn’t say this is the same as the lake of fire spoken of in Revelation, I believe that “geenna judgment” is synonymous with the “lake of fire judgment” but this type of judgment has nothing to do with being tortured in some god forsaken hell in literal fire. Losing oneself is not a pleasant experience and Paul further describes this in 1 Corinthians 3:15;

      If any man’s work shall be burned, HE SHALL SUFFER LOSS: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

      Notice that although he does suffer loss, he is still saved. The phrase “suffer loss” is translated from the Greek word zēmioō and here is how it is used in another scripture;

      Mark 8:36 For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and LOSE HIS OWN SOUL (life)?

      I hope this is starting to make sense to you. Chasing the vanities of life, living for carnal desires, and acting out in evil ways will only result in you losing your soul (life) in the judgment of God. It is not fun or easy for us to lose our carnality but one way or another, every one is going to lose their life for Christ because Christ is the foundation of all life because he laid down his life for all.]

      At the time I wrote my post about the lake of fire, I hadnt yet come to a firm conclusion as to what a person experiences in God’s judgment but after studying it further, God opened my understanding. I believe you explained it quite well and I appreciate your words of encouragement. Thanks for your comment and God be with you brother.

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    2. Hay wood and stubble means to me is your hearts motive in helping, were you doing it to be self righteous or out of true love, I am sorry people but Hell is real and people will burn there, When we sin against a Eternal God there is an Eternal punishment, We are carnal and cannot fathom eternity “Fear not man who can destroy your body but fear HIM who can destroy both body and soul and cast you into hell! Jesus died for those who put their faith in him so they don’t go to hell! Read this and do not be deceived! Matthew 25:31-46 Read it!!! Read it clear and do not let this man deceive you! Work out your salvation with FEAR and TREMBLING! No symbolic words there! It is Literal!

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      1. The hay, wood, and stubble of 1 Corinthians 3 represents UNDESIRABLE characteristics of a person’s work that will be figuratively burned out by the purging fire of God’s judgment. It is true that there is punishment for sin but God has already told us what that punishment is and it is DEATH not eternal torture in your pagan hell.

        Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is an eternal life of being tortured in hell… Is that what it says?

        Since when is “eternal life” a consequence for sin? If a person is to be tortured for all eternity in your godless hell, they must first be given eternal life… So eternal life is a punishment for sin? NO, THE WAGES OF SIN IS DEATH.

        It is true that we are carnal but some of us i.e. – YOU – are stuck on carnal and simply cannot understand spiritual things. You fear mongering hell lovers do nothing but run to your bibles and throw around these spurious bible words as if they have a lick of truth to them.

        Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

        So according to your god “King James” God is going to destroy people’s soul and body in hell right? Let’s investigate this instead of just repeating and parroting nonsense like you…

        So you think “hell” is proper rendering of the Greek? Apparently, the following bible translators disagree with you:

        Matthew 10:28 And do not be fearing anything from the ones killing the body but not being able to kill the soul. But be fearing instead the One being able to DESTROY BOTH SOUL AND BODY IN GEHENNA. (Disciples’ Literal New Testament)

        Matthew 10:28 And do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather, be afraid of the one who can DESTROY BOTH SOUL AND BODY IN GEHENNA. (New American Bible Revised Edition)

        Matthew 10:28 ‘Don’t be afraid of people who can kill the body, but can’t kill the soul. The one you should be afraid of is the one who can DESTROY BOTH BODY AND SOUL IN GEHENNA. (New Testament for Everyone)

        Matthew 10:28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Instead, fear the One who is able to DESTROY BOTH SOUL AND BODY IN GEHENNA. (Tree of Life Version)

        Matthew 10:28 Don’t be afraid of those who kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul. Rather, fear him who is able to DESTROY BOTH SOUL AND BODY IN GEHENNA. (World English Bible)

        Matthew 10:28 `And be not afraid of those killing the body, and are not able to kill the soul, but fear rather Him who is able both SOUL AND BODY TO DESTROY IN GEHENNA. (Young’s Literal Translation)

        Here are 6 bible translations that do not include the spurious word “hell” but rather they have left the Greek transliteration “Gehenna” untranslated into English. Do you know what “Gehenna” means? Of course you don’t because if you did, you would know that it isn’t some pagan torture chamber called hell.

        Gehenna was a LITERAL physical valley located outside of Jerusalem so if we are to interpret this literally as does all of fundamental Christianity, we would have to surmise that hell is located on earth and not in some mythical underworld. The actual word “Gehenna” is a combination of two Hebrew words (gay’) and (Hinnom) which is properly rendered as “the valley of Hinnom”. In this place, the Israelites had their own children pass through the fire as a sacrifice to pagan gods but historically, this valley was said to be the place where the dead bodies of criminals and animals were dumped as well as the city’s garbage. In present day Gehenna, there are NO bodies being burned there and it is actually a city park with trees and walkways…

        Gehenna is a SYMBOL and it is a symbol for the destruction of the carnal works of the flesh.

        You claim that Jesus died for those who put their faith in him but what about those who don’t put their faith in him?

        Romans 5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for those who put their faith in him… Is that what the scripture says? NO…

        CHRIST DIED FOR THE UNGODLY… now do the ungodly put their faith in Christ? I don’t think so, so not only do you lie; you also add to and take away from the word of God. You take your heresy one step further by claiming that by putting such faith in Christ one can avoid going to hell. By implication alone, that would suggest that Christ is saving us from his Father since it is the Eternal God that must eternally punish in hell according to your foolishness. You don’t have a clue as to what you are talking about and your further prove that by quoting Matthew 25:31-46 not having a clue what it means.

        Work out your salvation with FEAR and TREMBLING! Why? Because God is gonna throw you in hell in you don’t? NO…
        Philippians 2:12-13 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, WORK OUT YOUR OWN SALVATION WITH FEAR AND TREMBLING [WHY???] FOR IT IS GOD WHO WORKS IN YOU BOTH TO WILL AND TO DO FOR HIS GOOD PLEASURE.

        You simple minded Christians do nothing but parrot and repeat all of the scriptures that you think support your hate rhetoric…

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  2. Brother why are you even using that tone with me. Your all sweet and tender to the other comments. Wow very welcoming and christian like. You completely ignored the true heart of what I was saying. Are you teaching lost negros in America that they are the true JEWS. And that the transatlantic slave trade was bible prophecy dueteronomy chapter 28:15-68. Even psalms 137. Jeremiah 17:4. No you aren’t you a coon.

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    1. Brother? Let me make myself clear to you… You are NO brother to me as any brother of mine would not refer to me as a coon. I have a very small tolerance for ignorance and based on your last comment, you have exceeded that threshold. You are a racist hypocrite and there is nothing else to discuss with you. If you feel the need to respond to this message, DON’T because it will not be approved and you have been banned from this blog. Take your nonsense elsewhere…

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  3. There is only one thing that bothers me with this fire of purification idea. Someone that has related views as you said on his site after purification we will have a will for Christ and not a will for self. This is horrifying to me because i feel like it takes away what makes us humans… is this purification going to make us like mindless robots who just worship God without a will of our own? God should know how great he is without having to have us constantly worship him. Basically it horrifies me because; yeah i wouldn’t mind being good and free of sin and happy, but am i truly happy and not mindless and do i have my own free will? If not maybe what the gnostics say is correct and the God of the bible is not the supreme God, but was isolated from his mother Sophia and only thought only he existed (or maybe even thinks he might not be supreme which might explain the apparent need for worship) because he didn’t get to observe the others being isolated. I believe what the gnostics say has a possibility of being true but only a possibility… i don’t know much about gnosticism. Basically if this purification thing is true rather than eternal torment do you think the purification process will take away our free will? Will we still be free after the purification process or will we be like mindless robots? This scares the heck out of me if it is true and we really do become like mindless robots that can only think for God and not for ourselves.

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    1. Hello dgaubatz313 and thanks for your comment. I understand that there are many things that we all do not understand but I am not convinced in any way that humans will be like mindless robots that just constantly worship God as a result of His purifying judgment. I’m curious to know what it is that you think makes us humans? God is responsible for who we are and what we are so I do not understand why people believe that worshiping God is a scary thing or something to scoff at. We are nothing without our Creator. We do not exist nor can we do anything without our Creator. Humans have a “will” for self but it is controlled and manipulated by SIN. Since we are under the power of sin, we are NOT free but rather we are slaves because of sin. Do you like having a will that is manipulated by a power that produces evil? Maybe a better question would be are you satisfied with your will even though it is controlled by evil and vanity? Whatever your understanding is, God will deliver us from the bondage of sin which leads to death but we must not forget that God created us for His purposes and not the other way around. Human beings do NOT have a “free will” which is commonly understood to be a will that is free from causality. Humans have a will but our wills are influenced by so many factors that cause us to will what we will do or try to do. Having the ability to choose has nothing to do with “free will”. All of the choices we make in this life are products of the many things that have influenced us along the way. Try to think of just one decision you made that was free from some type of causal influence? Free will is the invention of human sovereignty or the belief that man is god over himself but this is farce. Humans by our own sinful natures do not want to give up what we feel like is ours but give me just one thing that you can do with your own will that can add just one second to your life? Most children have an innate desire (will) to please their parents as they get older because they want their parents to be proud of them but children aren’t mindless robots nor do their parents want them to be. Children grow up and live their own lives based on their own interests but many times, their interests have been influenced by their parents. That’s why you see multiple family generations of police officers, teachers, doctors, service members and so on. It is God that has given us the ability to have individualistic expression and it makes no sense for Him to take that away when He purifies us of evil and sin. When we possess God’s will, we will not think the same as we do in our current state of sinful carnality. We will think like God, desire like God, and be like God. God is love so maybe being all in God is not such a horrifying thing as you suggest.

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      1. The parent analogy helped. Basically you think we will be of one mind, but will choose this way of thinking, not have it forced on us? I just hope when/if this happens it’s true happiness and peace and not false happiness and peace. I really hope the Gnostics are wrong and this God is the supreme God and really does love and have our best interest at heart rather than just his own interest alone. If the Gnostics are right i hope the supreme God has the heart to saves us if he knows about us being created and used by this other God. I started out believing in the bible at a young age with like 100% faith, but now i have only like 50% faith maybe a little less. For a while i didn’t even pay much attention to it, but just recently started attempting to get back into it. What started to turn me away was some of the stuff this God does in the old testament and the threat throughout the whole bible that you either believe in me and follow my commandments or you’ll suffer eternal damnation or annihilation. Also getting into conspiracies and seeing how elite men corrupt, it made me think what if the bible is corrupt so one day i came across a really long article like two years ago that basically convinced me that the bible is corrupt and has been paganized. I have a bad memory so i don’t remember the article that well but i remember it convinced me that the teaching of Jesus and his true purpose has been corrupted and that the old testament has been corrupted too. People like to point out that God promised to preserve his word, but how do you know he really promised to preserve it through this book or that he promised it at all, being that that quote could have been added by men? I like 80% believe in a Creator but have trouble believing that the God of the bible is the Creator, even though i try to strengthen my faith it stays weak and i look at a lot of different things with a 50/50 belief in it. I like that there are other ways to interpret the bible like this, but why make it so hard to interpret and not make it direct and easy to understand if it truly is from God? If someone is Greek do they understand what you explained in this article better than us English men and women do?

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      2. Force is not the word I would use but there is nothing humans can do outside of what God allows. Every single human that has ever lived will be COMPELLED to praise and worship God when we are in His presence and when we experience the overwhelming power of His glory. Consider the power of earthly kings or presidents. Do these people not compel millions of people to praise them, adore them, and believe in them based solely on their position? They are not forced to do it but rather they are compelled because of other influences. How much more will we (humans) be subject to the majesty of the Creator of the Universe, the Creator of Life, and finally the Creator of Humans who were fearfully made is God’s own image? When God makes ALL things new, God will be our life, our energy, our thoughts, our purpose, and ultimately our everything. The way you say things suggests that God is unloving and only seeks to obtain forceful worship out of His creation. You have to understand that God is our master potter and we are the clay. Clay does not get to put the potter into question or have a say in what kind of pot they are made to be. In the like manner, we as humans are in no position to question God for how He created us for His purposes. You speak as if God owes us something or that He should care about our own agenda as if we could ever have an agenda absent from God’s influence. Everything we have was first given to us by God and because of God. We did nothing to earn or deserve anything God has done for us. Please explain to me what your best interest is? Do you think that it is possible for a human to even know what their best interest is over God’s intention who created the human in the first place? You seem to care more about your own purpose as if it matters or can exist outside of God’s purpose for you.

        When it comes to faith, you must first understand that faith by itself is a gift from God but there are so many doctrines and ideas in the world that it can be difficult to know what truth is. Most of what is taught in Christian churches is all lies with the doctrine of eternal torture being the most damnable lie of them all. Bibles that are in existence today of TRANSLATIONS of the original Hebrew and Greek manuscripts that were written under God’s inspiration. Translating from one language to another language is not an easy thing to do and considering the element of human error, there is no such thing as a perfect bible translation. There are bad translations and then there are better translations but none are perfect. God promising to preserve His word didn’t rule out the possibility and actuality that MEN did corrupt God’s word either through ignorance or deceit. Religion is power and wherever there is power, there you will find MEN. At the present time, we are living in a wicked age were Satan has been given dominion in order to deceive the world. One cannot be led into truth unless he is first lost in deception. God’s truth is like buried treasure. It is not lying around in plain view for anyone to just pick up. One must be willing to study and seek the truth in a diligent manner. How can we expect to embrace the truth when we come to God with a cup that is already full of the ideas, doctrines, and the traditions of the world? It doesn’t matter if a person is a Greek, Hebrew, Black, White, or even from ancient Israel… spiritual enlightenment is a gift from God and before we can receive it, our cup must first be EMPTY.

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  4. Well i’m sure if we were to create somehow a sentient being there would be rules to how that sentient being is created and treated, basically moral rules. So i’m going to have to trust that God is just and pure and has nothing but good moral purposes for us, because if he didn’t have good moral purposes for us it would be unfair to me because i didn’t ask to be created. I used to have this belief that if God is real we’re a part of him and only exist because we have a part of him inside us (breathe of life). In this case he can do with us what he pleases because he’s basically doing it to a part of himself… of course moral laws should still be followed in my opinion. My cup would be empty i think because being in the presence of God would make me feel like i know nothing so i would want to learn the truth from him… the only thing that would fill my cup some is the thought or fear that even God might deceive me. Thanks for the responses.

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    1. We do create sentient beings… they’re called BABIES and babies do not ask to be born! I personally have four babies, well 3 of them aren’t technically babies anymore but I love them dearly. I try to be a good father to them. I provide for them with shelter, clothes, food, etc. and I also give them things that they like. I let them have fun in reason but I also teach them to be responsible. I have to train them and coach them so that they can learn to make good choices. Even if I devote 100% of my time, money, and energy towards being the greatest father in the world, I will still fail at times because I am human. I’m not always a good father. I might yell at them and if they really piss me off I might even slip out a curse word at them. They may see me and their mother arguing and when we’re mad at each other, we don’t always say nice things. Sometimes I speed while driving with them in the car which is dangerous. Sometimes I’m lazy and don’t feel like helping them with their homework. I’m human and I have faults. I do believe that the good I do as a father far outweighs the bad but the bad is still there. Now if earthly fathers and mothers (who were created by God) try to do good for their children will not the God of all the earth do right with his own creation?

      Genesis 18:25 …shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?

      Remember in the beginning that God purposed us in the beginning to have knowledge of good and EVIL. How can we understand good if there is no evil? What is life without death? This is knowledge and humans are the only creatures that have this ability to KNOW.

      All human beings possess what we call a moral compass or the ability to know right from wrong. This was given to us by God but humans were just created with a predisposition to do wrong and this is why young children lie so easily. Explain how a 3 or 4 year old knows how to lie without any formal training, to blatantly and purposefully withhold facts as to absolve themselves of any guilt? God created us this way so that we can understand good and evil. We cannot have knowledge of good and evil unless we experience good and evil.

      Romans 8:20 For the creature [humans] was made subject to vanity [devoid of truth], not willingly [God’s will and not ours], but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

      What is this hope? Next verse…

      Romans 8:21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty [FREEDOM] of the children of God.

      Do you know what the bondage of corruption is? The bondage of corruption is death and everything that causes it. Sin brought for death to us all and God through the sacrifice of Christ will ultimately deliver us all from sin and death in the resurrection. When God makes all things new, we will all be good and righteous children of our Almighty Creator.

      I respect your belief that you say that your cup is empty but why do you doubt so much? Be strong in your faith. Be willing to die for you faith. There is no need for you to fear because as our Savior hang on the cross, He proclaimed that it is ACCOMPLISHED….

      Cast away all of your doubts and fears…

      1 John 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

      Remember that God is love…

      All the best…

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      1. I like a lot of what you said, but the part about Jesus dying on the cross for our sins creates doubt in me… i can’t help it really. I believe God can rid us of our sins or forgive our sins without having to go through Jesus to do it. I get that you appreciate life more when you have death because without death you take life for granted. It’s like when you get sick, when you get sick you appreciate how you felt before you were sick. I still think the angels (if they’re real) are better than us humans at least for now unless our experiences make us better, but i could be wrong.

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      2. Jesus dying for our sins is an essential part of the gospel and any person of faith must embrace this truth. There are many scriptures that explain that Jesus Christ died for our sins such as these;

        1 Corinthians 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that CHRIST DIED FOR OUR SINS according to the scriptures;

        1 John 2:1-2 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And HE IS THE PROPITIATION FOR OUR SINS: and not for ours only, but also for THE SINS OF THE WHOLE WORLD.

        Now, it is certainly true that God could rid us of our sins or forgive our sins without having to go through Jesus if that is what He decided to do…. but that isn’t what He decided to do. Doesn’t God have the sovereign right to choose how He will forgive us of our sins? Of course He does and it just so happened that God choose to send His only begotten son to the cross to die for the sins of the world.

        Ephesians 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of HIM [God] WHO WORKETH ALL THINGS AFTER THE COUNSEL OF HIS OWN WILL:

        Angels are not necessarily better than humans although they are more powerful because angels do not die. Scripture says that Jesus was made a little lower than the angels for the express purpose of DYING. Angels are just messengers that were created to assist God in His work. Angels have a purpose and humans have a purpose as well but our purpose and their purpose is predicated based on God’s will.

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  5. I have been reading your website and i really wish that univerlism where true, but since my recent found about Sodom and Gommorah i can’t be sure about that. Jesus talked about the judgement will be like the judgement on Sodom. annihilation that is. If you look at this video and many other videos on Sodom you can see that people did find evidence about the destruction of the cities with fire and brimstone.

    What do you think

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    1. Believing that universal reconciliation is false doesn’t make universal reconciliation false. It only means that whatever it is that you do believe has persuaded you enough to believe otherwise. In regards to the judgment of God, there are primarily two doctrines that dominate in religious circles. The first and most popular doctrine is the doctrine of eternal damnation. This is the belief that the majority of humanity will be given ETERNAL LIFE only to be tortured for all eternity in a place called hell. The second and less popular doctrine is the doctrine of eternal destruction or the complete annihilation of the wicked and unbelieving population. Neither of these two doctrines tell the truth about God’s judgment. The destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah has nothing to do with eternal damnation or eternal destruction. You need to read my paper titled The Truth about Eternal & Everlasting here;

      https://therealgospelofchrist.com/eternal-everlasting-the-truth-about-the-greek-words-aion-and-aionion/

      Since it appears that you believe in the doctrine of eternal destruction, let’s look at what Jesus says about Sodom and Gomorrah;

      Matthew 10:15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the DAY OF JUDGMENT, than for that city.

      In this scripture, Jesus is condemning all of the cities that refused to believe in spite of witnessing the mighty works of God which including healing the sick and raising the dead. He is saying that it will be MORE TOLERABLE for the people of Sodom and Gomorrah than the people of those other cities in the day of judgment. If the people of Sodom and Gomorrah are annihilated, how can their judgment be MORE TOLERABLE than the judgment of the people of those other cities? Does that make any sense to you?

      It is not a secret that God destroyed the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah because of their wickedness, but that destruction is age-lasting and most certainly not eternal.

      Ezekiel 16:55 When thy sisters, SODOM AND HER DAUGHTERS, SHALL RETURN TO THEIR FORMER ESTATE, and Samaria and her daughters shall return to their former estate, then thou and thy daughters shall return to your former estate.

      Sodom and her daughters is referring to the city of Sodom and Gomorrah and other similar cities but notice that Ezekiel 16:55 says that they will return to their FORMER ESTATE. How can the people of Sodom and Gomorrah return to their former estate if they are annihilated? It is in the RESURRECTION that the people of Sodom and Gomorrah will return to their former estate after God has judged them and purified them of evil. When Christ returns, the wicked and unbelieving world will be destroyed just as the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed but this destruction is only for an age while God’s elect reigns with Christ on earth for 1,000 years. After that age of reigning with Christ, the age of JUDGMENT will begin but God’s final judgment of the world will produce righteousness in every single human being that has ever lived.

      Isaiah 26:9 With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for WHEN THY JUDGMENTS ARE IN THE EARTH, THE INHABITANTS OF THE WORLD WILL LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS.

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    2. I THINK ONE MUST TURN TO JESUS IN THIS LAST LIFETIME OR SUFFER TOTAL LOSS AND ANNIHALATION OF ONE’S PRECIOUS SOUL FOREVER IF YOU DIE IN YOUR SINS. THIS IS WHY THERE IS A REMNANT ONLY, WHO WILL BE SAVED TO LIVE ETERNALLY IN THE NEW HEAVEN AND EARTH. WHY ONLY A REMNANT? BECAUSE HOWEVER UNFORTUNATE IT MAY
      SEEM TO YOU, ONE MUST REALIZE SND DEEY RESPECT (FEAR) THAT GOD IS THE SOLE CREATOR OF THE HEAVENS AND THIS EARTH, AND WE SRE NOT ABLE TO KNOW THE ENTIRE MYSTERY OF IT JUST YET. HE IS ETERNAL , LIVES FOREVER, AND IS JUST. BECAUSE HE IS JUST AND HE IS FAIR,HE PREFERS ALL TO COME TO HIM, BUT IT IS AFTERALL OUR OWN CHOICE. HE IS NOT A FORCEFUL GOD. HE GIVES EVERYONE A CHANCE, BUT SOME WILL REMAIN UNBELIEVING OF THE FACT THAT GOD MERCIFULLY SENT HIMSELF IN THE FLESH THROUGH HIS SON JESUS TO PROVE TO ANYONE WHO WILL BELIEVE ON HIM (BY BELIEVING THE TRUTH OR “WORD” PASSED DOWN TO EVERYONE FREELY) AND TO BELIEVE IN SUCH A WAY AS TO “EAT HIS FLESH AND DRINK HIS BLOOD” (SYMBOLISM FOR ACTUALLY “GETTING IT”… GETTING OR UNDERSTANDING THAT JESUS ACTUALLY CAME BACK TO LIFE AFTER DYING 3 DAYS AND WAS ON EARTH FOR A COUPLE MONTHS AFTER HANGING ON THE CROSS. AND IF YOU GET IT, IT WILL MAKE SENSE TO YOU AND YOU THAT YOU WILL HUNGER AND THIRST TO KNOW WHAT GOD WOULD HAVE YOU DO IN YOUR LIFETIME. HE GIVES US COMMANDMENTS FOR OUR OWN GOOD, TO BENEFIT US. WE ONLY MUST BELIEVE THAT HE IS OUR LOVING FATHER OR CREATOR !!! ONE MUST TURN AWAY FROM ALL KNOWN SIN AND TURN TO JESUS TO SAVE YOU NOW IN THIS LIFETIME. THIS IS A VERY GREAT AND PRECIOUS OPPORTUNITY THAT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO REGRET AND PRODUCES THE SEEDS OF THE FRUITS OF THE SPIRIT INSIDE YOUR HEART…LOVE,JOY, PEACE,HUMILITY,LONGSUFFERING,FORGIVENESS AND PATIENCE. AH YES, PATIENCE. I LOVE YOU!!!! I HAVENT FOUND A MORE USEFUL WAY TO TURN TO JESUS AND TURN FROM MY OLD EVIL(EVIL MEANS OF NO GOOD WHATSOEVER) WAYS, THAN TO STUDY THE BIBLE. IF THERE IS ANOTHER WAY, HE WOULD HAVE TOLD ME. I DID ASK HIM. BYE BYE NOW. PS …I CANT IGNORE THE REMNANT. IF YOU HAVE ANY GOOD IDEA ABOUT IT FOR ME, COMMENT BACK.THANKS.

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  6. God bless you.
    I’ll just get straight to the point with my questions.

    If God saves everyone and if the lake of fire wouldn’t even so much as cause any pain whatsoever, what then do you say to evil people bent on their ways.
    What do you say to a murderer, rapist, child molesters, and all sinners who could care less about the salvation Christ offers?

    How do you preach to people like that?
    When you warn people of the Judgment to come, what are you warning them about? A lake of fire that will cleanse them regardless of how they live?
    When you preach Christ’s Love for murderers, rapist, fill in the blank; what does that mean for the victims if these sinners don’t change.

    If a murderer kills a believer and they both will have equal standing with God after the Judgment what does that say about the importance of choosing good and rejecting evil?

    This last question is probably the most important one I have for you. And I thank you for making it this far.

    I ask this last question not as a christian or an unbeliever, but simply as a human being.

    If Universalism is true, why not eat, drink, and do whatever it is my heart desires be they good or bad, not withholding anything from myself even at expense of other? If At the consummation when God is all in all, I will be equal to the most faithful of believers who sacrificed all, even their very lives to follow Christ.

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    1. Hi Jerry, thanks for your comment… below is my answers to your questions.

      If God saves everyone and if the lake of fire wouldn’t even so much as cause any pain whatsoever, what then do you say to evil people bent on their ways.

      Since when has an evil person that is bent on their ways cared about the counsel of God? I do not speak to them, I speak to those who are searching and seeking the truth. I don’t know how you found this site but I doubt that “evil people” are searching the Internet to read about the things of God. I never said that the lake of fire wouldn’t cause pain but rather that the purpose of the lake of fire is not to eternally torture people in real fire. The purpose of the lake of fire is to purge and purify the sinner and not to torture the sinner. Revelation 21:8 says that murderers and liars will have THEIR PART in the lake of fire so I would suppose that this purging purifying process would be more difficult for a murder as opposed to a liar. In regards to God’s judgment of evil, the scriptures speak about suffering loss, losing oneself, and age-lasting judgment that will invoke shame and disgust when we see the works of our sinful flesh as God sees it (1 Corinthians 3:15, Luke 9:25, Daniel 12:2).

      What do you say to a murderer, rapist, child molesters, and all sinners who could care less about the salvation Christ offers? How do you preach to people like that?

      Murderers, rapists, and child molesters do not care about what I have to say. Do you think murderers, rapists, and child molesters are walking in churches to hear about God? What would your pastor say to them? Would they say that they would go to hell? Do you think that the threat of an eternal hell would cause these murderers, rapists, and child molesters to repent? Seems to me that the doctrine of hell does more to control Christians than it does to cause sinners to repentance because murder, rape, and children being molested is more prevalent than it ever has been in the past.

      When you warn people of the Judgment to come, what are you warning them about? A lake of fire that will cleanse them regardless of how they live?

      If I warn anyone about God’s pending judgment, it is usually directed towards self-righteous hypocritical Christians. Christ no doubt spoke about judgment to his disciples but his harsh condemnation was always directed at the religious hypocrites and not the sinners. Would you feel better if the lake of fire was meant to torture people instead of judging them to produce righteousness? Your inquiry suggests that you are having trouble understanding the concept of judgment unless it includes physical pain and torture. The purpose of judgment is to correct with the long-term goal of a changed behavior. If my son disobeys one of my rules, I will administer judgment on him that would include possibly taking his cell phone or XBOX away. I may also require him to write a paper so that he can think about his actions and why they are undesirable. I do not lock my son in a basement or withhold food from him. I do not beat him like he is a runaway slave and I sure as hell wouldn’t put him in my oven and bake him to death. I am a sinful man and yet I try to enforce righteous judgment as a father. Will the judgment of our heavenly Father be less righteous than the judgment of sinful men? Contrary to what you may believe, judgment is a good thing and even believers have to go through God’s judgment.

      When you preach Christ’s Love for murderers, rapist, fill in the blank; what does that mean for the victims if these sinners don’t change.

      What does that mean for the victims if those sinners DO change? If a man rapes your daughter and later repents and accepts Christ, according to Christianity, your daughter’s rapist would go to heaven. There is not one Christian in the world that doesn’t believe that at present, Adolf Hitler is in hell being tortured where he has been for the last 71 years and counting for the punishment of his sins. Let’s suppose that Hitler didn’t commit suicide but he just surrendered to the Western Allies to be tried for his crimes. There is no doubt that Hitler would have been sentenced to die but let’s also suppose that he was introduced to Christianity in which he confessed his sins and accepted Christ as his savior. According to Christianity, he would have gone to heaven at his death just like it is believed that the thief on the cross immediately went to heaven after confessing to Christ before his death. Is that justice for his victims? On a side note, it is no secret that Jews deny that Jesus Christ is the Messiah and by that belief alone, the Jews are guilty of denying Christ which would send them all to the same hell as Adolf Hitler. Is that justice? So in this scenario, Adolf Hitler would be in heaven and the 6 million Jesus denying Jews would be in hell which would really be a second hell for them. You believe that God judges in this way or that he is more evil that Adolf Hitler? Adolf Hitler’s enemies all died but God’s enemies will never die seeing that Christianity embraces the doctrine of eternal torture for the wicked and unbelieving populations. Do you condone such nonsense? Do you believe in forgiveness? Forgiving your enemies sounds all good but what does it really mean if nothing ever happens in our life that challenges us to forgive?

      If a murderer kills a believer and they both will have equal standing with God after the Judgment what does that say about the importance of choosing good and rejecting evil?

      You make assumptions that are just not true or scriptural. Human beings cannot just choose good without God first working in them to do good. Humans were accustomed to do evil (Jeremiah 13:23). Scripture states that there is none that is righteous and none that is good… NOT EVEN ONE (Romans 3:10-12). I’m sorry but that includes both you and me. God is the master clay potter and he makes vessels of honor and vessels of dishonor. We are being created in God’s spiritual image which requires the knowledge of good and EVIL. How can we have knowledge of evil if there is no evil in existence to experience? Contrary to what you may think, God is responsible for the creation of evil (Isaiah 45:7). Evil is necessary in the production of righteousness for what is good if there is no evil? You need to read Romans 2:1-3 and then maybe you’ll understand that you are a murderer and a rapist. Under the right circumstances, you would kill and rape and so would I but it is the grace of God that causes us to reject and abhor evil. Did the Apostle Paul not murder and persecute Christians before he was chosen by Christ to repent and spread the gospel to the Gentiles? Do you believe that you will have equal standing with the Apostle Paul? Have you literally murdered anyone before? Murders and believers experience different judgment and all will be rewarded or punished according to their works in this life and in future ages to come.

      If Universalism is true, why not eat, drink, and do whatever it is my heart desires be they good or bad, not withholding anything from myself even at expense of other? If At the consummation when God is all in all, I will be equal to the most faithful of believers who sacrificed all, even their very lives to follow Christ.

      Is that not exactly what you did before you presumably became a Christian? Did what you wanted to do be it good or bad? Isn’t that what we all do before God begins to call us out of the world to be conformed into the image of Jesus Christ? Why do you believe that God needs to torture billions of people in a hell in order for your calling to have merit? You are not the first person to ask this question. Some even go so far as to say things like, if God will save all, then it doesn’t matter what we do. We can kill, steal, and rape and it wouldn’t mean a hill of beans because God is still going to save us anyway. Never mind the fact that killing, stealing, and raping all bring varying levels of earthly consequences if one is charged and found guilty and I think life in prison is a big enough consequence to influence the majority of reasonable minded people to not kill but like I said before, under the right circumstances, everyone would kill and that is a fact. I cannot help but think that these people who say such things also secretly desire to do such things but my belief that God will save all has never inspired me to do evil. In fact, it inspires me to be even more righteous because my heavenly Father is righteous and I seek to be like Him. Those who believe in a hell have no problem suggesting that it would be okay to kill, steal, and rape because their minds are deceived and corrupted by such a blasphemous view of a god that will torture sinners in real fire. They manifest the same evil attributes of the evil false god they worship. Let me be clear about something, the wicked and unbelieving sinners will not be equal with God’s chosen elect that overcome the world. All will be saved but all will not reign with Christ for 1,000 years in the kingdom of God, all will not avoid being hurt of the second death which is the lake of fire, all will not be made ambassadors of Christ in the new government of God, all will not be commissioned as wise judges that will turn many to righteousness, all will not judge angels, and all will not receive the same immortal spiritual body as Paul tells us in I Corinthians 15:38-44. God will save all and God will be all in all but not before we die physically, not before we die to the carnal works of the flesh, and not before we suffer God’s sin purging judgment.

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      1. If humans were accustomed to evil and God purposely made it that way wouldn’t it be his fault and wouldn’t that not be free will. Some stuff doesn’t make sense. Remember you’re quoting a english bible that has people thinking they burn in Hell forever while being tormented… if that’s not true then what else is not true that the english bible says? I wish i could talk to a greek christian and ask them what hell is to them and other things. I can’t help but feel separated from the bible, but still, i don’t sin much.

        About Hitler i’m assuming you think he is the worst man to ever live because of the Holocaust, but what if the holocaust never happened? After watching half of a 6 and a half hour documentary a while ago i’m like 50/50 on it right now. This is the documentary https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vnu5uW9No8g There are historians and scholars that have denied it and were imprisoned for denying it.

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      2. Fault is not the word I would use because that word implies that God was in error but Romans 8:20 says that the creature was made subject to vanity which is better explained as being made DEVOID of truth and unfit for a particular purpose. Contrary to human wisdom, humans do NOT have free will or a will that is free from causal influences. God is the great causer of all things and it is blasphemy to suggest that a mortal man can make choices independent of the will of God. Remember that God works ALL THINGS after the counsel of His OWN will and God’s counsel is not nor will it ever be subject to the will of men. Most bibles are fine to read and study as long as you understand that words like hell, eternal, everlasting, and forever and ever are not properly translated words. I have written material on this that is available for anyone to read and study. There is no such word as hell in the Greek. Bible translators changed the Greek words “gehenna” and “hades” as the English word hell only to control people through fear from the pagan ideas of eternal torture. All pagan cultures before the advent of Christianity had some belief system concerning punishment in some afterlife. These ideas were all borrowed from pagan mythology. The word hell actually has its origin from German and it meant to conceal. If the word hell retained it’s original meaning instead of this modern concept of torture then it wouldn’t be so damning to the bibles we read. We have to learn how to rightly divide the word of truth. I only use Hitler in explaining things because many Christians try to use Hitler against me since they believe he personifies evil. They believe that it is impossible for God to save him. I’m not really interested in conspiracy theories about whether the Holocaust ever happened or not but nevertheless I will watch the video because history is a hobby of mine. For the purposes of using a symbol of evil, I could just as easily have used the Apostle Paul as he was a murderer and persecutor of Christians before his conversion. I would assume that your confusion is based on the many Christian lies you have been told throughout your life but I understand your frustration. Are you having difficulty believing that hell is a lie?

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    2. Hi Jerry,

      My name is Alan Finch. I became a Christian 40 years ago. I just came across this website this afternoon. I was a Christian for 38 years before the Lord began to open up the revelation of His Written Word to me to see much more clearly what the “GOOD NEWS” of the Gospel of Christ is really proclaiming to us. In fact, I have written an article on this, (What is the “GOOD NEWS” of the Gospel of Christ? – Re-examining the widely held belief of “eternal torment” in “Hellfire”) which I am going to submit to this site. It can also be found on my website http://www.fedbythespirit.com.

      In my 40 years as a Christian, I have found that the road that leads to “Spiritual Truth,” is no smooth road!

      Also, I have come to realize that many Christians, when presented with a “Spiritual Truth” that is an inconvenient truth for them, (which could be for any number of reasons) will just simply “CHOOSE” to ignore or reject that truth.

      It was just last year, that the Lord began to open up the revelation of His Written Word to me to see more clearly that not “ALL” Christians will rule and reign with Christ. In fact, when the day of reckoning comes, it is going to be a great shock to the Church, when the realization sets in that there will be multitudes upon multitudes of Christians who will not rule and reign with Christ! You see, it will only be the overcoming Saints that will rule and reign with Christ. In the appointed time, all other Christians, along with the rest of humanity, will enter the kingdom of God, but will not rule and reign with Christ.

      That is what this is all about. It is not about who will be saved, (because the Bible states to us clearly, that all will be saved) but this is about who will be found worthy to rule and reign with Christ. As I state in my article, there is a big difference between entering the Kingdom of God, and inheriting the Kingdom of God. Only those who inherit the Kingdom of God, will be the ones who will rule and reign with Christ. When we come to a clear understanding of this, then a number of other things that we may not have previously understood in the Scriptures, will begin to make a great deal more sense to us. I hope that the article that I wrote on this, which is below, will be of help to you.

      Not ”ALL” Christians will rule and reign with Christ

      Satan has done maybe his most masterful job in “blinding” today’s Church to many Biblical truths. Not only does Satan hate humans because they are made in God’s image, but because Satan lost his position of being the highest ranking angel before he sinned, he cannot stand the thought of Christians ruling and reigning with Christ.

      The Church has been “deceived” into believing that all Christians will rule and reign with Christ. However, a closer examination of the “Scriptures” will reveal to us that there will be many Christians who will not rule and reign with Christ.

      Satan does not want Christians to know this “little known truth” which has not been understood by the Church today. It is the Christians who have “applied” the “overcoming” Christian principles to their lives who will rule and reign with Christ. Christians who have not “applied” the “overcoming” Christian principles to their lives,“will not qualify” to rule and reign with Christ.

      Philippians 3:14 is a MONUMENTAL Passage of “Scripture” for a Christian to understand. After a careful examination of this Passage of “Scripture,” if we are able to come to an understanding of the “profound truth” that is in this Passage of “Scripture,” then it becomes clear as to why this Passage of “Scripture” is of MONUMENTAL importance for a Christian to understand.

      The widespread teaching of the Church today, is that all Christians will rule and reign with Christ. However, upon careful examination of the “Scriptures,” the Written Word of God tells us differently.

      The Lord through “His” Written Word, is wanting us to understand that Salvation through Grace is “His” free gift to those who accept JESUS as their Lord and Saviour, and to understand that after a person’s Salvation that there is a “prize” that awaits all those who “press toward the mark” for the “prize” of the “high calling” of God for us in Christ Jesus.

      The “prize” is that of ruling and reigning with Christ, which can only be obtained through a Christian becoming qualified. (qualified – i.e. having been made fit for a position or purpose) Not all Christians will be qualified to rule and reign with Christ.

      In fact, one such example can be found in Revelation 3:16, in which JESUS tells the Laodicean Church that because of it’s “lukewarm condition” that “HE” is going to spew them out of “His” mouth. (i.e. because they were not applying the “overcoming” Christian principles to their lives, they will not rule and reign with “Him”)

      NOTE: JESUS was warning those who were in a “lukewarm condition,” that “if they continued” to stay in that condition, “the final results” would be that they will not rule and reign with “Him” when “HE” returns to set up and establish “His” Kingdom here on earth.

      When JESUS made that statement, “HE” was addressing Christians. There is no such thing as a lukewarm non-believer. “Only a Believer in Christ can become lukewarm.”

      JESUS also gives us several more examples in some of “His” parables, which can be difficult to understand when trying to decipher the true meaning.

      Having obtained the free gift of Salvation through Jesus Christ does not in itself “qualify” us to rule and reign with Christ. After the free gift of Salvation, the Lord wants us to have the understanding that there is a “prize” that awaits Christians, but is not automatically awarded to each and every Christian, but is only awarded to those who “press toward the goal” of obtaining that “prize” which the Apostle Paul speaks about. Salvation through Jesus Christ puts us in position to have the opportunity to “qualify” for obtaining the “prize” of ruling and reigning with Christ.

      The Apostle Paul tells us in Philippians 3:14 that he was always “pressing toward the mark” for the “prize” of the “high calling” of God in Christ Jesus. The Apostle Paul had already obtained his Salvation through Grace, so this is not the “prize” that he is speaking about. Also, he had already obtained his gifting from God to carry out his earthly ministry, so this is not the “prize” that he is speaking about.

      The Apostle Paul understood that if a Christian is not careful and not wise to the tactics of the enemy, that he or she can easily “miss the mark” of obtaining the “prize,” which is to rule and reign with Christ. I believe that this was constantly on the Apostle Paul’s mind. The Apostle Paul was so concerned about this, that in the 9th Chapter of 1st Corinthians, he tells us that we are to run the race and finish the race in order to obtain the “prize.” The Apostle Paul states the last thing that he wanted was to become a “castaway” himself. The word “castaway” in the Greek means: unapproved, rejected, disqualified.

      Even though the Apostle Paul had obtained his Salvation through Grace, and had obtained a very powerful gifting to carry out his earthly ministry, he recognized that if he did not run the race and finish it, that he would himself be unapproved, rejected, disqualified from obtaining the “prize” of ruling and reigning with Christ.

      The Apostle Paul was determined to not allow himself “to lose sight” of “pressing toward the mark” for the “prize” of ruling and reigning with Christ.

      JESUS tells us in Revelation 3:21, “To him that overcometh, will I grant to sit with “ME” on my throne.” (i.e. – “HE” will grant the “prize” of ruling & reigning with “Him” to Christians who have “applied” the “overcoming” Christian principles to their lives) When we are able to grasp the revelation of what “pressing toward the mark” for the “prize” of the “high calling” of God in Christ Jesus truly entails, then some of the difficult to understand sayings of JESUS, and the meaning of some of the difficult to understand parables of JESUS will become more clear to our understanding.

      A “major blind spot” of today’s Church, has been, and is, it’s lack of understanding of the difference of “entering” the Kingdom of God, and “inheriting” the Kingdom of God. Only those who “inherit” the Kingdom of God, will rule and reign with Christ!

      Without a doubt,“a top priority of Satan” is to keep as many Christians as he can from obtaining the “prize” of ruling and reigning with Christ. A main objective of Satan is to “blind” people from their understanding of Biblical truth!

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      1. Jesus was speaking to the carnal minded Pharisees when he said, “the kingdom of God is within you”… The Pharisees were too corrupt and carnal minded to know what Jesus was talking about. It is no secret that Jesus Christ will return to the earth but when he returns, he will be coming to resurrect the chosen saints of God to reign with him in the establishment of God’s government. God’s kingdom is a “spiritual kingdom” and that is why we are told that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God. Those who are “spiritually minded” can SEE the kingdom of God because they do not see with their eyes but rather with their “spirit”. The kingdom of God is the spiritual process of humans being transformed into the spiritual image of God through Jesus Christ. Those that will INHERENT the kingdom of God will actually experience that inheritance in the resurrection when believers are spiritually born in spiritual bodies according to the words of the Apostle Paul in 1 Corinthians 15. Like Alan stated in his comment, all believers will not partake in that inheritance and actually most believers will not. It is in the resurrection to judgment that all will be turned to righteousness and all will become sons and daughters in the family of God.

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      2. I agree with most of what you said except for this passage;

        “because Satan lost his position of being the highest ranking angel before he sinned, he cannot stand the thought of Christians ruling and reigning with Christ.”

        Satan was NEVER a high ranking angel or even an angel at all. The teaching that Satan was an angel named “Lucifer” is a Christian fairy-tale. I expose this heresy in one of my papers at this link and I welcome you to read it…

        https://therealgospelofchrist.com/satan-gods-perfect-instrument-of-evil/

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      3. 1st of all, I would like to share with Mr. Randolf that I really appreciate his article “The Lake of Fire.” Yesterday, on my computer, I keyed in the wording the “lake of fire,” and came across this site. In answer to someone’s question on this site, I decided to share an article “Not “ALL” Christians will rule & reign with Christ,” which I submitted to this site last evening. This morning, I am submitting to this site another article that I wrote a couple of years ago, which can also be found on my website http://www.fedbythespirit.com.

        The reason why that I named my website “fed by the spirit” is because, I only want my articles to come forth as a result of being Holy Spirit directed, rather than from traditional man-made doctrines, which has completely infiltrated and taken over the Church today.

        I became a Christian 40 years ago. After becoming a Christian, I was very committed to a non-denominational church for a number of years. Eventually, the Lord took me out of our present-day “Institutional Church System.”

        It is my very strong belief that nothing has been more damaging to the Christian Faith today, than our present day man-made religious institutions that hand out Biblical study degrees to those who complete the required courses in order to get the worthless paper degree. They then become leaders in the Church, who everyone looks up to for Spiritual knowledge and for Spiritual guidance, because they now have their worthless paper degree.

        I would like to show you just how worthless their paper degree really is. JESUS addressed this very issue when HE told the religious leaders who were highly educated in the Old Testament Scriptures, “YOU DO ERR, NOT KNOWING THE SCRIPTURES” and “HAVE YOU NOT READ.” Of course this greatly infuriated the religious leaders, because after all, who was JESUS, who had no Biblical study degree, to speak to them in the manner in which HE spoke to them. It is my strong belief that this is probably the main reason why that these religious leaders pressed so hard to have JESUS crucified on the Cross.

        The “Institutional Church System” (which is not Biblical) is guilty of “INSTITUTIONALIZING” the ” ROLE” of the Holy Spirit. Because of this, the Lord has allowed blindness to come to the Church today in regards to a number of very, very important Biblical doctrines.

        Below is the article that I would like to share with you.

        ………. What is the “GOOD NEWS” of the Gospel of Christ? ……….
        (Re-examining the widely held belief of “eternal torment” in “Hellfire”)

        I have been somewhat hesitant in writing this article. However, one evening this week, I sat down at my computer and opened up Word Document and keyed in the title of this article. At that point, I stopped. I was unsure if I really wanted to write this article. Within the hour, something took place that confirmed to me that the Lord was letting me know that I was to continue writing this article. The Lord confirmed this to me in such a way that the odds would have been astronomical that it was by chance.

        It has been a few weeks since I wrote this article. I have decided to share what took place on the evening of 05/14/2014.

        As I explained in the above paragraph, on 05/14/2014, I sat down at my computer and opened up Word Document and keyed in the title “What is the “GOOD NEWS” of the Gospel of Christ?” At that point, I stopped. I was unsure if I really wanted to write this article. I then went into the bedroom and began watching TV. Sometime within that hour, as I was clicking onto different channels, I clicked onto one of the Christian TV stations. At that “exact second,” the words “what is the Good News?” came forth from a Pastor’s mouth. Those were the very 1st words spoken at the “exact second” that I tuned in to that TV station. Those are the exact 1st five words in the title of my article. At that point, I thought to myself, “WOW, WOW, WOW, okay Lord, I will write the article.”

        I have timed a number of times of how many seconds it takes to say “what is the Good News?” It takes 2 seconds. If I had just been 2 seconds later in clicking onto that TV station, I would have missed hearing those words. If I had been even 2 seconds earlier in clicking onto that TV station, I probably would have heard a couple of words spoken by that Pastor before he spoke the words “what is the Good News?”

        I tuned in at the “exact second” that the words “what is the Good News?” came forth from this Pastor’s mouth.

        The odds are astronomical that it would be by chance for the order of events to take place in the way in which they did that evening. That evening, the Lord was confirming to me to write this article. The Lord did this in such a way, that I was in total amazement at what transpired that evening. 6 weeks later, I am still amazed!

        I was a Christian for 38 years before the Lord opened up my Spiritual understanding to see more clearly some Biblical truths that I had not properly understood in regards to the finished work of Christ on the Cross.

        It is very likely that most Christians, including myself, have at some point and time in their innermost being have thought to themselves, “Is God, who created the human race for the purpose of having eternal fellowship with “Him,” really going to sentence the majority of the human race to suffer “eternal torment” in “Hellfire?” Well, I guess so, because that is what the Bible says!” Well, let us examine the “Scriptures” in the Bible very carefully and see if we are really being told that there really is going to be “eternal torment” in “Hellfire.”

        In the 2nd chapter of Luke we are told that there were some shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night, when suddenly, an angel of the Lord appeared to them and said to them:“Fear not: for, behold, I bring you “Good News” of great joy, which is for (ALL) people. For unto you is born this day in the city of David, a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.”

        There is a widespread belief in the Church today that the smaller portion of the human race will be saved and inherit eternal life with Christ, while the larger portion of the human race will be “condemned” to “eternal torment” & “eternal separation” from God.

        If that is indeed the case, it is beyond all comprehension to me as to why the proclamation was made that the birth of Christ the Saviour is “Good News” of great joy for (ALL) people, if still even after the birth of Christ the Saviour and “His” sacrificial death on the Cross for the human race, that the larger portion of the human race is still going to be “condemned” to “eternal torment” & “eternal separation” from God.” Does that sound like“Good News” for (ALL) people?

        We need to examine much more carefully what the Written Word of God “declares” concerning the “Good News” of the Gospel of Christ and the finished work of Christ on the Cross. After all, there is “NOTHING MORE IMPORTANT” than “our eternal destination!”

        The Church today claims to be proclaiming the ”Good News” of the Gospel of Christ, and yet, the most important part of the message of the “Good News” of the Gospel of Christ “is not being proclaimed today” by the Church, because today’s Church has not understood how PROFOUND the finished work of Christ on the Cross really is.

        It seems that God had fellowship with Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden quite frequently, maybe even on a daily basis before they sinned. “EACH” & “EVERY” human being has been created for the purpose of having fellowship with God for all eternity. This “has always” been the plan of God from even before the creation of all things. “His” plan “cannot be changed,” because God “PRE-DETERMINED” our fellowship with “Him” for all eternity from before the creation of all things. God “Himself” tells us that it “cannot be changed,” because “HE” tells us in Malachi 3:6 – “I am the Lord, I change not;”

        It is IMPOSSIBLE for God’s “PRE-DETERMINED” plan for the entire human race to fail. “To attribute failure to God” is of the “highest insult” to our Creator!

        We are told in 2 Peter 3:9 that the Lord is not willing that any should perish. In the Greek translation, the word “willing” means “intend.” (i.e. – The Lord “does not intend” for any to perish.) What a HUGE difference this makes in giving us a proper understanding of the actual meaning of this Passage of “Scripture.”

        Lamentations 3:31 – “For the Lord will not cast off forever.” (i.e. reject, forsake, abandon) This verse is very clear in communicating to us God’s promise that NO ONE will be separated from “Him” for all eternity.

        The Bible reveals to us the Father’s heart. The Cross reveals to us the Father’s “indescribable love” for us, “His” creation.

        God did not create the human race, to then only wind up rejecting and abandoning the majority of the human race to total abandonment from “Him” for all eternity.

        Philippians 2:10-11 is one of the most “PROFOUND” Passages of “Scripture” in the Bible. “That at the name of JESUS every knee will bow, of things in heaven, and things on earth, and things under the earth: And that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.”

        There is absolutely nowhere in this Passage of “Scripture” that states or even suggests that every knee will be “FORCED” to bow the knee to the name of JESUS. In all religions, bowing the knee is a“voluntary” form of worship. As explained in the next several paragraphs, we will come to understand more clearly that Philippians 2:10-11 is revealing to us that bowing the knee and confessing that Jesus Christ is Lord, is not going to be forced upon (ALL), but that (ALL) will do so willingly. Throughout the Bible, we find that the “Scriptures” clearly state that GOD “only accepts a willing heart.”

        A word study of “confess” (ἐξομολογήσεται) in the Greek language (in light of the way that this same verb is used in other New Testament “Scriptures”) reveals that this verb in the context of this Passage of “Scripture” is rendered “to thank.” That meaning growing out of the sense of open, joyful acknowledgement. The sense here is that of frank, open confession.

        An individual cannot praise and joyously proclaim that Jesus Christ is Lord, “if one is being forced to do so,” Especially, if that individual knows that “eternal damnation” & “eternal separation” from God awaits them. It is just that simple!

        The traditional teaching on this Passage of “Scripture” has been that even the enemies of the Cross will be forced to bow their knee and confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. This train of thought is in complete “contradiction” to the Written Word of God, because the Bible from Genesis to Revelation “clearly teaches” that the Lord “only accepts” praise and worship “from a willing heart.” “Forced praise and worship” DOES NOT bring Glory to God.

        In Philippians 2:10-11, God “IS NOT” proclaiming that all those who have not known Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour, “are going to be forced” to bow their knee and confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.

        “ON THE CONTRARY,” God is proclaiming to us an “astonishing” & “profound” revelation, that because of the finished work of Christ on the Cross, that (ALL) will come to know Jesus Christ in such a way that (ALL) “will willingly” (not be forced) acknowledge openly with praise, and proclaim joyously that Jesus Christ is Lord.

        The “true meaning” of Philippians 2:10-11 has been “greatly overlooked” by the Church today!

        There can be little doubt that after the Millennial Kingdom reign of Christ and “His” Saints on earth, that Christ is going to give all enemies of the Cross, and “each” and “every person” who did not have the Gospel of Christ presented to them, a PROFOUND revelation of what “HE” did for them on the Cross which was done out of “His” indescribable love for them.

        When the Bible speaks of “Hellfire,” it is just simply a “metaphorical expression.” “Hellfire” is not going to “produce physical suffering to the lost” (lost – those without Christ). Rather, the lost are going to experience a Spiritual suffering, which will indeed be agonizing, because of the refining FIRE of God’s Spirit. Malachi 3:2 – “The Lord is like a refiner’s fire.”

        The “completion” of this mighty work of God is going to produce a PROFOUND revelation of what Christ did for them on the Cross. The results of this revelation to them will probably burn in them to such a degree, that it will probably produce an agony in them beyond comprehension, which will cause them to fall down to their knees, and with great joy and praise from the innermost part of their being, “proclaim openly” that Jesus Christ is Lord.

        We are given another “PROFOUND” Passage of “Scripture” in Luke 3:6, which states: “AND ALL FLESH SHALL SEE THE SALVATION OF GOD.” The King James translation has every word in this Passage of “Scripture” in capital letters. This apparently is for the purpose of wanting the readers to take special notice of this Passage of “Scripture,” because it is proclaiming something that is quite PROFOUND.

        A word study of “see” in the Greek language reveals that one of the definitions of “see” can mean “to experience; to become a partaker of.” Because of the way that this Passage of “Scripture” is constructed, it is very reasonable to believe that this is the true meaning of “see” in this Passage of “Scripture.”

        A better rendering of this Passage of “Scripture” would read: “AND ALL FLESH SHALL EXPERIENCE AND BECOME PARTAKERS OF GOD’S SALVATION.”

        NOTE: At some point and time in the future, the above Passage of “Scripture” will be fulfilled. This will all be worked out in God’s ETERNAL plan for man.

        The “GOOD NEWS” of the Gospel of Christ is the “RECONCILIATION” of (ALL) things back to God through the finished work of Christ on the Cross.

        Colossians 1:20 – And God was pleased for Christ to make peace by sacrificing “His” blood on the Cross, so that all beings in heaven and on earth would be brought back to God.

        Colossians 1:26 – This is the “mystery” which has been hidden from ages past and from generations, but now has been revealed to “His” Saints.

        I Corinthians 15:22 tells us “For as in Adam (ALL) die, even so in Christ shall (ALL) be made alive.” Once again, take special note that (ALL) shall be made alive in Christ. What is important to understand is that God has a purpose and plan for (ALL). At the 2nd coming of Christ, the Millennial Kingdom reign of Christ will begin in which “He” and the Saints who have overcome (overcoming Saints – 2nd & 3rd Chapters of Revelation) will rule and reign here on earth.

        At some point and time after the 1000 year rule and reign of Christ and the Saints here on earth, “everyone else” through the “refining fire” of God’s Spirit, will be reconciled back to God because of the finished work of Christ on the Cross. This was the plan of God from the very beginning of creation. This is what the ”GOOD NEWS” of the gospel of Christ is all about.

        I Corinthians 15:26 tells us “The last enemy to be destroyed is death.” (i.e.- the last enemy to be destroyed is separation from God.) (ALL) will be “reconciled” back to God. Yes, even the fallen angels. God did not create multitude upon multitude of angels and then think to “Himself,” “When I created the Angels, I did know that a large number of them would rebel against ME.”

        Also, God did not create man in “His” own image and then think to “Himself,” “When I created the human race, I did not know that the majority of the human race would rebel against me to the point that the majority of the human race will have to endure “everlasting torment” & “everlasting separation” from ME.”

        God already knew before “HE” created the human race, that multitudes of people would die without being presented with the Gospel of Christ, therefore, missing out on the opportunity to make Christ their Lord and Saviour. Also, God already knew that the majority of the human race would become enemies of the Cross. Are we to believe that God would still have made the decision to create the human race, if “HE” already knew that the majority of the human race would be “condemned” to suffer “everlasting torment” & “everlasting separation” from “Him?” I THINK NOT !!!

        Are we to believe that God who created us to bring Glory to “Him,” is such a failure that “HE” is left with no choice but to “condemn” the majority of the human race to “everlasting torment” & “everlasting separation” from “Him,” which will not only bring NO Glory to “Him,” but to the contrary, will only highlight “His” failure in “His” original purpose for creating us? I THINK NOT !!!

        Also, I would like to address the issue of “annihilation.” There are those who do not agree with the common belief of unsaved people eventually burning in “Hellfire” for all eternity, or experiencing some other type of “eternal torment,” but their belief is that unsaved people will eventually be “annihilated” and exist no more.

        This belief cannot be correct, because we are told in Ecclesiastes 3:11 – “He” has made everything beautiful in it’s time. “He” also has planted “eternity” in men’s hearts and minds.” (a divinely planted sense of a purpose working through the ages). God created us as “eternal beings.” Our eternal Spirit “CANNOT” be destroyed.” Remember, God made us after “His” own image!

        THE PROFOUND FINISHED WORK OF CHRIST ON THE CROSS HAS NOT BEEN PROPERLY UNDERSTOOD BY TODAY’S CHURCH!

        God from the very beginning had a plan and purpose for all creation. “HE” already knew how things would turn out. “HE” made no mistakes. In past ages, God’s plan and purposes were unfolding and being worked out. In this present age, God’s plan and purposes are unfolding and being worked out. In future ages, God’s plan and purposes will continue to unfold and be worked out.

        There are multitude upon multitude of families who have prayed for the salvation of their loved ones, only to see them die without knowing Christ as their Lord and Saviour.

        Even though they will not take part in the 1st Resurrection and rule and reign with Christ and the Saints who have overcome during the Millennial Kingdom Age, we can take great comfort in knowing that “at some point and time” after the Millennial Kingdom reign of Christ and the Saints, that “EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM” will live for all eternity under the perfect conditions of the New Heavens and New Earth.

        This is what the “GOOD NEWS” of the Gospel of Christ is all about, the “RECONCILIATION” of (ALL) back to God, through the finished work of Christ on the Cross.

        The finished work of Christ on the Cross “made provision” for the “REDEMPTION” of (ALL), “WITHOUT EXCEPTION.”

        The very last words of JESUS on the Cross before “His” last breath were, “IT IS FINISHED!” Those 3 words will “ECHO” into ALL ETERNITY. Those 3 words PROCLAIMED the final destination of (ALL) being “RECONCILED” back to God. From even before the creation of all things, the “RECONCILIATION” of (ALL) back to God through the “SHED BLOOD” of Christ on the Cross “has always” been our Creator’s plan.

        In John 12:32, JESUS “declares to us” that “HE” will draw (ALL) people unto “Himself” (Note: “each in their own time”)

        We are told in Colossians 1:16 that all things created in heaven, and on earth, visible and invisible, were created for God’s Glory. This is why that it is “IMPOSSIBLE” for any part of God’s creation “to remain” in “an inglorious condition” for “ALL OF ETERNITY.” In due time, in the Ages to come, (ALL) of God’s creation will bring Glory to God as was pre-ordained by God before the creation of all things.

        The Bible “message” SCREAMS OUT God’s plan of “ETERNAL SALVATION” FOR (ALL). (Note: “each in their own time”)

        JESUS “declares to us” in John 6:44, that nobody can come to “Him” except the Father “draws them” to “Him!” It is “IMPOSSIBLE” for anyone to come to JESUS and surrender their lives to JESUS, without the “working drawing power” of the Holy Spirit.

        You see, there is no individual that is “more special than another individual” as to cause the Lord to draw that individual through the“working drawing power” of “His” Holy Spirit to surrender their lives to JESUS, thereby, saving that individual from “eternal torment” & “eternal separation” from “Him,” but then sentences another individual to “eternal torment” & “eternal separation” from “Him,” who never had the“working drawing power of the Holy Spirit drawing them to surrender their lives to JESUS.

        As I have stated before in this article, Luke 3:6 “declares to us” that (ALL) will come to know the Lord, “each” in their own time according to God’s eternal plan for the Ages. Luke 3:6 – “ALL FLESH SHALL SEE THE SALVATION OF GOD.”

        I shared earlier in this article that a word study of “see” in the Greek language reveals that one of the definitions of “see” can mean “to experience; to become a partaker of.” Because of the way that this Passage of “Scripture” is constructed, it is very reasonable to believe that this is the true meaning of “see” in this Passage of “Scripture.”

        A better rendering of this Passage of “Scripture” would read: “ALL FLESH SHALL EXPERIENCE AND BECOME PARTAKERS OF GOD’S SALVATION.”

        Most Christians are very familiar with the Passage of “Scripture” that “declares to us” that there is coming a time when God “shall wipe away (ALL) tears,” and there shall be “no more sorrow,” and there shall be “no more pain.” This is “declared to us” by the Lord in Revelation 21:4.

        Revelation 21:1 gives us greater insight into what Revelation 21:4 is really “declaring to us.”

        Revelation 21:1 – “And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away.”

        It is important for us to take “SPECIAL NOTICE” that the Lord is “declaring to us” that it is after “His” handiwork of a new heaven and new earth, that there will be “no more tears,” and “no more sorrow,” and “no more pain.”

        Well, since the Bible already tells us that 1000 years before a new heaven and new earth takes place, Christ is going to set up “His” Millennial Kingdom here on earth, in which “HE” and the Saints who have overcome, will rule and reign. The Saints will already be in their “new Glorified bodies” when they come with Christ to rule and reign with “Him.” Therefore, all their tears, and all their sorrows, and all their pain will have already been removed from them for (ALL) eternity.

        That then raises the question, what group is the Lord referring to in Revelation 21:4 ?

        Since Revelation 21:4 is “declaring to us” that (ALL) tears shall be“wiped away,” it becomes clear that the Lord is “declaring to us” that (ALL) in this Passage of “Scripture” s referring to the rest of (ALL) humanity, beginning with Adam & Eve.

        So Revelation 21:4, along with other Passages of “Scripture” that have been shared in this article, is “declaring to us” that “not one single person” will suffer “eternal torment” & “eternal separation” from God.

        NOTE: The New Testament was written in the ordinary language of the common people of its day which included “idioms” that were used in their everyday language. (“idiom” – a figure of speech) In fact, every language has its own “idioms,” which really makes a HUGE DIFFERENCE when trying to come to a correct understanding of a particular Passage of “Scripture” in the Bible which contains an “idiom.”

        It is important for us to know that JESUS used “idioms” in “His” teachings, which were understood by the people during that period of time.

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  7. I’m having difficulty believing the bible period. If they can make up Hell what else can’t they do with the bible? I don’t trust men… the stuff they can do with the word (if the creator really gave us his word and man didn’t make it up) over thousands of years bothers me.

    I’ve always felt bible aside that for conscious life to exist, some form of conscious life has got to always have existed with no beginning even though that can be hard to comprehend and if there is a creator we are individual pieces from the whole of the Creator. Even in the English bible it says we didn’t live until God gave us the breath of life; this can have different meanings but it seems like we have him inside of us or we are partially him, but not part of the whole.

    I also want to mention that on my dads side my great grandparents who both passed away and my great uncle who is still alive that i haven’t talked to in a while are heavy Christians and they follow the bible really well and i think my uncle believes in the traditional view of Hell (i haven’t talked much with him about Hell in my life and in fact have only seen him like 5 times in my life), but based on what i’ve heard and seen he’s definitely not a sinner, if at all then very rarely.

    At least you’re giving the documentary a chance… i didn’t expect that. You’ll quickly see that it’s well made. I only watched half of it. It’s wrong for people to be locked up for denying it though.

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    1. The Creator should connect with us more while we’re alive and give us another bible, one that won’t cause as much division and confusion in todays age. The fact that this doesn’t happen even sometimes has me doubting whether a creator exists, but then my existence starts feeling like proof of a creator, then i go back to doubting and it goes back and forth.

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    2. You shouldn’t trust men because it is your responsibility to study to show yourself approved and to rightly divide the word of truth. All I am doing is trying to help guide people in the right direction by exposing the lies of Christianity. Revelation 12:9 states that the devil deceives the whole world so deception is necessary in this age so that God’s chosen can be set apart from the world as they overcome the world. Man’s capacity for evil and corruption shouldn’t surprise you because man always has an agenda and that agenda always involves MONEY and POWER. Religion is POWER and religion obtains MONEY through tithing. The doctrine of hell is necessary because it uses fear as the primary force to motivate people to continue attending church which will result in future tithing. This practice started with the Roman Catholic Church and it was passed on to all Protestant churches stemming from the reformative movement in 16th century Europe. The enforcement of tithing is a sin in an of itself and there are thousands of churches that bring in thousands to millions of dollars every month from mostly poor households. In regards to your uncle, the bible says that all have sinned. To sin is to transgress the law and if we stumble in just one point of the law, we are guilty of offending every law of God. The religious Pharisees in the days of Christ were strict followers of the law but their hearts were full of evil and corruption. If bibles that translate hell bother you that much, then consider using bible translations such as Young’s Literal Translation, Rotherham’s Emphasized Bible, and the Concordant Version as they do not translate one word as hell.

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  8. “Jesus was speaking to the carnal minded Pharisees when he said, “the kingdom of God is within you”… The Pharisees were too corrupt and carnal minded to know what Jesus was talking about. It is no secret that Jesus Christ will return to the earth but when he returns, he will be coming to resurrect the chosen saints of God to reign with him in the establishment of God’s government. God’s kingdom is a “spiritual kingdom” and that is why we are told that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God. Those who are “spiritually minded” can SEE the kingdom of God because they do not see with their eyes but rather with their “spirit”. The kingdom of God is the spiritual process of humans being transformed into the spiritual image of God through Jesus Christ. Those that will INHERENT the kingdom of God will actually experience that inheritance in the resurrection when believers are spiritually born in spiritual bodies according to the words of the Apostle Paul in 1 Corinthians 15. Like Alan stated in his comment, all believers will not partake in that inheritance and actually most believers will not. It is in the resurrection to judgment that all will be turned to righteousness and all will become sons and daughters in the family of God.”

    What about the chosen that are still alive, how will they receive a spiritual body to reign with Yeshua? Also in your opinion what do you think is worse a person that believes but sins a lot or a person who only half believes or doesn’t believe but sins little?

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    1. First question: What about the chosen that are still alive, how will they receive a spiritual body to reign with Yeshua?

      This is what Paul says in 1 Corinthians 15:51-52;

      Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

      The phrase “we shall not all sleep” means that not all will die as sleep is used in scripture many times as a metaphor for the state of the dead.

      Psalm 13:3 Consider and hear me, O Lord my God: lighten mine eyes, lest I sleep the sleep of death;

      At the sound of the last trumpet, the living saints at the time of Christ’s return will be immediately transformed into their immortal incorruptible spiritual bodies.

      Second Question: Also in your opinion what do you think is worse a person that believes but sins a lot or a person who only half believes or doesn’t believe but sins little?

      We are all sinners so it is of little concern whether one sins a little or sins a lot. In Revelation 21:8, liars and murderers are both cast in the same lake of fire to be judged, tested, and purified. Sin is sin and the wages of sin is death regardless of the amount but we as in all sinning humanity aren’t justified by our own righteousness. Romans 5:18 tells us that we are justified to life by the acts of Christ. Remember that all things are of God and God calls those who believe to believe and it is God that guides and leads people to repentance. Believing and repentance are both gifts from God and He gives those gifts according to His purpose.

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      1. Why do you think he hasn’t come back already? We’re told the time is soon yet it’s been 2,000 years. Yeshua has been here at least once and maybe twice if you believe Krishna and Yeshua are the same person and the stories are true.

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      2. There are many reasons why it is obvious that Christ hasn’t come back because none of the things that Christ promised has come to a reality. Christ returning to the earth is not going to be a colossal magic trick. There are things that will have to change for the scriptures to be true in regards to the return of Christ. Biblical time is not the same as relative time for God says that to Him, 1,000 years is the same as 1 day. When the scriptures speak of the time being near, it is referring to the concept that the time could be any time because we don’t know the time. Think about it like death… Death is near to us all because none of us actually know the time that we will die and likewise, none of us know the time that Christ will return but it is near.

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  9. I read through most of the articles and I must say its more of a confirmation to the somewhat “radical” truth the Lord has been revealing to me about the bible as a whole, and particularly, on what I call THE TRUE GOSPEL (hell, damnatin, eternal torment, etc). FOr now, these truths are personal revelation to me as it is dangerous to cast your pearls before the swine lest it be mashed on.

    However, I’m curious about your take on the church and Israel. Do you think the church is the spiritual Israel?

    You mentioned that the church will reign with Christ at the millennium. I believe the millennium is the kingdom promised to the Jews (and the tribulation saints). It is the time where Jesus would reign physically as their king, fulfilling him as Messiah of the lion of the tribe of Judah. He will rule with the rod of iron and the Gentiles nations will bring tribute to him. And this time, Jerusalem will be the capital of the world and Israel will be the priest to the nations, etc.

    I believe the church is separate and distinct from Israel, and she is the bride of Christ (Israel is the people of God). Jesus is the Messiah to the church but not as a Lion that would rule with rod of iron, and with the government on his shoulder… but as a Lamb who died to save his bride (the gentile nation). You see Jesus fulfilling dual role of the Messiah there: first as a lion and second as a lamb. This is why the Jews missed him because he came as a lamb while they were expecting g him as a lion to take over the government, and so on. At this time, he came to do a “short work” (Rom 9:28) to incorporate the Gentiles. That is why Israel was blinded in part (Rom 11:25). This is a church is a mystery, hidden from ages and also from the prophets and the prophetic clock and view.

    The rapture is for the church and the second coming is for Israel and then the millennium where Christ will fulfill all the promises as their Messiah, the lion. With all the tribes that are sealed. This period, the church, the bride, will be with the father.

    Revelation 4:1
    ​ After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

    “Door,” “trumpet,” “come up hither” all suggest this is the rapture of the church. And if you care to read verses 4-5 it buttresses the description of the church and also describes the events that follows as the great tribulation. The church is before the Father all through this time. Fast forward, The church returns to the earth as the new Jerusalem, adorned like a bride. She is the New Jerusalem, the bride, and she will rule together with Christ in the new earth.

    Who would she and Christ rule over? Chapters 20-22 of Revelation tells about the people, these who live in the city (including Israel and those after the judgment). This is the exclusive kingdom of Christ and Christ will rule with his bride.

    I believe this marks the distinction between the Church and Israel and the millennium belongs exclusively to Israel and the tribulation saints. I will be honored to read your view.

    Thanks

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    1. No, the “church” is not spiritual Israel. The church system in the world today that has existed for ages is “Mystery Babylon” and it is currently under the power of Satan’s deception. Christ commands His chosen elect to come out of Mystery Babylon (man’s religion and church) for that is what the word “church” means in the Greek – a calling out… The millennium is the 1,000 years of age-lasting life which is the gift of extended life that is promised to all believers who overcome. Why would the Jews inherit this gift of age-lasting life considering all of their idol worship and ultimate killing of their own messiah? Israel must go through judgment before their salvation is realized and that is why Christ told the Jews that the first would be last and the last would be first. The Jews were first in communing with God but they will enter the kingdom of God last and the Gentiles were last in communing with God but they will enter the kingdom of God first. In Matthew 8:11, Christ says that many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven. These MANY that come from the east and west are referring to the Gentile saints but pay close attention to what Christ says in the next verse;

      Matthew 8:12 But the CHILDREN OF THE KINGDOM shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

      The children of the kingdom is ISRAEL and they are the ones that are cast out from the kingdom of God as they experience God’s judgment. Contrary to the fantasies of Christianity, there is no such thing as the tribulation or what is better known as the “Great Tribulation” that is associated with Christian end-time prophecy. All saints enter the kingdom of God through much tribulation (Acts 14:22) and not just the saints during some doomsday period. The church is distinct from Israel but you have to be careful when you say “the church”. The world already had a church system when Christ said that He would build His church. The world’s church which is a counterfeit version of God’s church is the church of Christianity and all of the denominations of Christianity. Christ is building His church by calling out those that He chooses. The bride of Christ is the chosen elect, the ones called out of the corrupt church of men, the true spiritual Israel. So when you say “the church” I’m assuming that you are referring to the church that Christ is building. The second coming of Christ is for Christ to establish God’s kingdom on earth with the saints of God that will reign with Christ. The rapture and the second coming are not two separate events and the rapture is not even what most people think it is. The rapture ideology is taken from 1 Thessalonians 4:17 and the actual words are “caught up” and not rapture. The saints are caught up to meet the Lord in the air and not in “heaven” to avoid a tribulation.

      The book of Revelation is nearly entirely symbolized and most of the words represent something else with a higher spiritual application for an example in Revelation 19:15, the sword coming out of the mouth of Christ is the word of God and not a real literal sword as it would be ridiculous to think that a real sword is coming out of the mouth of Christ. In Revelation 4:1, heaven is an invisible spiritual realm and the door opened in heaven is not a real literal door. It is God opening up a spiritual gateway for John as he was immediately in the “spirit” to perceive God’s revelation. John was not raptured to a literal door in “heaven”. The church never leaves the earth… The dead saints are dead and in the grave awaiting the first resurrection when they will be resurrected and “caught up” to meet the Lord in the air and the living saints will join them afterwards.

      Christ and His elect saints will rule over the inhabitants of the world. The saints reigning with Christ is not eternal but for a millennium (1,000 years). When the 1,000 years come to an end, the age of judgment will begin and it will be the saints of God who will judge the world thus ruling over them at the conclusion of their judgment.

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      1. Those who rise in the first resurrection will rise in glorified immortal spiritual bodies. Those who rise in the second resurrection will not be raised in glorified bodied because they will have to experience the second death. They will be transformed after they have been completely purged of all evil and sin through God’s purifying judgment.

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  10. You sound like an intellectual man But really you are a man who is blind. Hell is real and the lake of fire will come and will last forever.

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    1. Really? I’ve heard that nonsense about a thousand times… If you’ve read my whole series on the false doctrine of hell and you still believe such Christian heresy, I think it’s safe to say that you are the one who is blind.

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    1. Hello Steven and thanks for commenting… I’d be glad to give my thoughts on both of the links you provided.

      In response to N.T. Wright’s take on universalism, his method of trying to context away the truth of scripture in regards to the salvation of all is not uncommon to me especially when it is coming from a person that is engulfed in much of Christendom’s traditions. From a Christian perspective, I can see how difficult it would be to accept the belief in the salvation of all when that belief clearly is in conflict with so many Christian doctrines. However, the scriptures clearly teach that God is the Savior of ALL MEN but that truth has been hidden by corruption through improper bible translations and carnal minded scriptural interpretation. We have got to get away from these Christian doctrines and ideas that are based on centuries old LIES. There are literally dozens upon dozens of lies that plague the Christian religion but none of those do more damage than the doctrines produced from such faulty translated words as “hell” and “eternal, everlasting, and for ever and ever”. One must first reconcile the truth in regards to such corruption before one can be led from the darkness to the light.

      It would take a considerable amount of time for me to address all of Mr. Wright’s claims as his article is littered with Christian heresy but I will make a few comments. Mr. Wright’s first fallacy is stating that universalism is salvation for all people without exception but Paul tells us in 1 Corinthians 15:22-23 that all shall be made alive in Christ but EVERY man in his own ORDER. Nobody is ultimately excluded from the salvation that is in Christ but every man will experience salvation in his own order. In my article, “God’s Plan of Salvation for the Whole World” I explain the 3 resurrections events that lead to the salvation of all. He states that, “biblical universalism is not the belief that salvation is given to all without exception, but that salvation is available in Christ to all without distinction”. How can he make such a claim considering that there are millions of people such as the indigenous people of faraway lands that have never even heard of the name of Jesus Christ? Yet we are told in Acts 4:12 that there is no other name under heaven whereby we must be saved. How can a person call on the name of a savior that he or she has never even heard of? If we are to really believe that at the name of Jesus Christ, every knew will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, we must also believe that God is capable of drawing such populations to Christ outside of the realm of this world.

      Mr. Wright has no choice but to find deceptive ways to change the scriptures that speak about universal salvation as to reconcile some level of consistency with the many Christian doctrines he believes. He fails himself by trusting more in the wisdom of men instead of in the wisdom of God. I could write much more in defense of universal salvation, but it won’t do much good if one is convinced that what the Christian church teaches is truth.

      In response to Jimmy Akin’s article titled, “The Reality of Hell”, I will start by stating that his article would be more appropriately titled, “The LIE of Hell”… The word “hell” is not even an appropriately translated word as the KJV renders it from FOUR different words in the original Hebrew and Greek. Any honest scholarship in this matter would certainly raise substantial alarm and I have written quite a bit of information in support of my stance on this subject. Once again, Mr. Akin is a victim to the same deception as Mr. Wright in holding steadfast to the damnable creeds of Christianity as if they have any harmony with the word of God. Hell is most certainly empty because it doesn’t even exist in “reality”. Hell only exists in the minds of those who have been deceived into thinking that the God of all the earth is going to literally torture billions of people in real fire without mercy or hope for redemption. In the Hebrew, hell is translated from the word “sheol” and sheol is also translated as the word GRAVE however, hell and grave are not synonyms…

      Hell – a place regarded in various religions as a spiritual realm of evil and suffering, often traditionally depicted as a place of perpetual fire beneath the earth where the wicked are punished after death.

      Grave – a place of burial for a dead body, typically a hole dug in the ground and marked by a stone or mound.

      In the scriptures, sheol is described as a place that is SILENT and a place where there is PEACE (1 Kings 2:6, Psalm 31:17). If hell is an appropriate translation for the Hebrew word “sheol” then how can we make sense of this place being silent and peaceful? Do you think this type of corruption stopped in the Old Testament? NO, it didn’t… This same translation corruption exists in the New Testament as well. In 1 Corinthians 15:55, we are told that there is VICTORY over the grave, however, the word “grave” is translated from the Greek word “hades” which is found 11 times in the New Testament. In every scripture that has the word “hades” in it, the word hades is translated as the word HELL except for in 1 Corinthians 15:55. Why do you suppose that the translators went completely away from being consistent with their translation methods? They did it because they didn’t want Christians knowing that there is VICTORY over their pagan hell so they translated hades as grave in that verse hoping that nobody would notice. As long as Christians are deceived in believing the lie, they will continue to believe and spread the lie. There is more to this if you study the history of the Christian church that fled from Europe during the Reformation movement but while they fled; most of the heresies they tried to flee from remained. I will not address all of Mr. Akin’s comments but I will make one last comment in regards to Matthew 26:24. I have heard that scripture quoted by many defenders of Christian tradition as to justify their pagan hell but once again, a proper study of this scripture will prove something quite different. First off, let me just come out and tell you that Jesus Christ NEVER said that it would have been better for Judas if he had never been born. Let’s take a look at this verse in the King James translation;

      Matthew 26:24 The Son of man goeth as it is written of him: but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born.

      Based on the way this verse is translated in the King James, it does appear that Jesus Christ is saying that it would be better if Judas had never been born but the truth is hidden in the original Greek. Before you can understand this, you must first understand that men have corrupted the word of God and the King James Bible is probably the worst in that regard. The Christian hell is a very powerful doctrine and the “church” uses it to promote submission through fear. Christians primarily become Christians to escape an eternal hell of torture coupled with the fantasy of going to a magical heaven. The purpose of the church is to fill the church pews and if the church pews are filled then the offering plate is filled. Religion has always been about power and money. In order for the Christian hell to have some merit, bible translators had to change the scriptures by adding and taking away words. Let me show you how those bible translators changed the Greek of Matthew 26:24 in order to support the doctrine of the evil eternal Christian hell. Let’s take a look at Matthew 26:24 in a Greek-English Interlinear;

      The indeed son of the man goes as it has been written about him; Woe but to the man that, through whom the son of the man is delivered up; good it was to him, if not was born the man that. (The Emphatic Diaglott)

      On the surface, it may not be as easy to catch but you have to have a careful eye because the reading is difficult. Notice the word order in the last part of Matthew 26:24 in the King James Bible;

      – it had been good for (that man) if (he) had not been born [In the KJV, “that man” is translated before “he”. Now let’s look at the last part of Matthew 26:24 in the The Emphatic Diaglott which is a Greek-English Intelinear;

      – good it was to (him), if not was born the (man that) [In the Emphatic Diaglott, (him) is translated before the (that man) but what does this all mean? Well, this changes everything about what Jesus was saying. The (he/him) is JESUS CHRIST and the (that man) is Judas. Let’s take a look at Matthew 26:24 in the Concordant Literal New Testament which is a much more responsible bible translation;

      seeing that the Son of Mankind is indeed going away according as it is written concerning HIM [this HIM is JESUS CHRIST the Son of Manking], yet woe to THAT MAN [Judas Iscariot] through whom the Son of Mankind is being given up! Ideal were it for Him [Same HIM – Jesus Christ] if THAT MAN [Judas Iscariot] were not born!”

      So, it would have been better or ideal for JESUS CHRIST if Judas Iscariot were never born not Judas Iscariot himself because it was the actions of Judas that led to Jesus Christ being delivered up to the Jews to be flogged, beaten, spit on, whipped, mocked, and ultimately crucified… Essentially what the text is saying is that if Judas had never been born, Jesus would never have been betrayed and led to his death but Jesus is obviously being sarcastic as He knew full well that going to the cross and dying for the sins of the world was God’s will.

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  11. I appreciate your thoroughness and your are evidently a bright man, but I think you are wrong in regards to salvation.

    I assume you don’t consider yourself a Christian, given your disdain for the church. If that is so, what are you? N.T wright (who is the world’s leading scholar on The New Testament) has admitted that the church hasn’t been without its problems throughout the centuries, but to completely dismiss it — and with such vitriol, as you do — is heading into dangerous territory. What if your harsh criticisms are wrong and you have to answer for them in front of God? Though with a universalist mindset, I guess there is less apprehension on your part, seeing as you believe that all will be saved, no matter what they do, say or believe.

    Why would Christ save those that blatantly and overtly mock him? What about those that blaspheme the Holy Spirit (Matthew 12:31) how do you reconcile their supposed forgiveness? Isn’t that the one unforgivable sin? What about John 14:6? If one denies this and worships other gods / idols (or themselves), they will still be saved? Then what was the use in Jesus saying what he did in that verse?

    Do you honestly believe that someone like Paul Bernardo will be in heaven (the new earth) along with the girls that he tortured, raped / sodomized, murdered and dismembered? How would God’s justice be perfect if he granted him and others like him with the gift of eternal life?

    Are we not forbidden to enter the kingdom of heaven without dying to our sin and being reborn? You seem to suggest a belief in purgatory when you claim that those who die without denying themselves and doing the will of the Father will undergo a refining fire which will cleanse them and make them fit for entry into heaven. Yes, the heaven and the earth will undergo refinement by fire, and our works will be tested by it, but I think you are incorrect about said fire purging enemies of the Lord of their wickedness.

    If universalism is true and Jesus is ultimately going to save every single human being that has ever lived, then why do you suppose he hasn’t returned yet? Why not put an end to all the chaos, death, suffering, famine, torture, rape, human tracking, slavery, etc. now and swiftly return? Why draw things out for so long (yes, I know, time is different to us than it is to God, but that doesn’t negate, that in our perspective, the world has been suffering for ages) if we’re all just going to be saved anyway? Why not just override the mess of this current order of existence and go straight to the paradise that awaits us? I guess it could be possible that not every human that God intends to exist and be part of his future kingdom has been born yet, and thus the timing of Christ’s return isn’t appropriate. Why would things need to get any better or worse to bring about the parousia?

    Lastly, how do you explain Matthew 7:21-23?

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    1. Thanks for the compliment as that is not typical of “Christians” but God’s agenda really has nothing to do with what either of us think. We have to study the scriptures and let God’s truth shine irrespective of our own religious bias. You are correct in assuming that I do not associate myself with the label of Christian but that is mostly due to the fact that I believe essentially no Christian doctrines. There are very little doctrines in all of Christianity that are scriptural and most are the product of religious tradition. My disdain for the “church” has more to do with the church’s influence as an evil false institution and little to do with the people who are under its deception. Having a Christian background, I know what it is like to be deceived but God has brought me out of the corrupt Christian church or as Revelation calls her – Mystery Babylon, the Mother of Harlots. I do not recognize myself as anything except as being a believer in Jesus Christ. The only difference between me and Christians from a belief standpoint is that I believe that Jesus Christ is not only my personal savior but the savior of ALL MEN as scripture plainly tells us in 1 Timothy 4:10. Now you say that I am heading into dangerous territory by completely dismissing the world’s “church” system but why do you say that? Do you think that I am foolish as to make such bold assertions without the convictions necessary to justify my own position? What if my harsh criticisms of the church are RIGHT? Let’s consider the parallel of Christ in contrast with the religious Pharisees of His day that were world leading scholars of the Law of Moses. How did Christ address them? Was He nice about it when calling them out for their hypocrisy? We shall all stand before God and give an account of our life but my idea of this process is similar to that of child standing before their parent as opposed to a slave standing before a tyrant. God is not some terrorist boogieman that we need to fear like a child fearing monsters in their closet. God is love and love conquers over fear. You are misinformed in saying that I believe that all will be saved no matter what they do, say, or believe. None of my teachings even suggest such nonsense but that is a common lie that is posed on those who believe in the salvation of all because most do not understand what the scriptures teach on this matter.

      Why would Christ save those that blatantly and overtly mock him?

      Because while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us – Christ died for the UNGODLY… Salvation requires a person to be lost before they can be saved. God must DRAW a person to Christ before they can come to Christ. Going to a pulpit in a church and saying a 10 second sinner’s prayer is NOT being drawn to Christ. That is being drawn to RELIGION… How many so called “Christians” mock Christ by believing that he will fail at following through with his commission from the Father as the “Savior of the world” (1 John 4:14)? How many professing “Christians” mock Christ by believing that his atoning work of dying on the cross was an unsatisfactory propitiation to cover the sins of the world (1 John 2:2)?

      What about those that blaspheme the Holy Spirit (Matthew 12:31) how do you reconcile their supposed forgiveness? Isn’t that the one unforgivable sin?

      Do you even know what blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is? Most people that blaspheme the Holy Spirit do not even know that they have committed such a grievous sin as the Pharisees that tried to associate evil with the Spirit of God didn’t even know themselves what they had done. What Jesus is saying has more to do with people being deceived as opposed to being cursed. There is NO passage in the entire bible that has the phrase “unforgivable sin”. The unpardonable sin is nothing more than another doctrine created by Christianity to provide justification to their evil heresy of an eternal hell. Matthew 12:31 is NOT the end of Jesus’ thought. We can know this because the next verse begins with AND… Jesus gives more details to his message of speaking evil against the Spirit of God;

      Matthew 12:32 AND whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, NEITHER IN THIS WORLD, NEITHER IN THE WORLD TO COME.

      If my son lies to me and I tell him that he will not play his XBOX this week or the next week after that, how absurd would it be for me to call his behavior an unforgivable lie? The consequence for lying is the two weeks and the implication is clear that playing the XBOX again will be restored after the two week consequence period ends. So in contrast with Matthew 12:32, this world or age comes to an end at the second coming of Christ. The next age is the 1,000 year reign of the saints of God with Christ on EARTH in the spiritual kingdom of God. That age also comes to an end and the next age is the age of judgment. It is in this age of judgment when blasphemy of the Holy Spirit will be forgiven. FYI – just so you know, believing in the hell of Christianity is blasphemy of the Spirit of God but like I said before, most don’t even know that they’ve committed this offense because of deception.

      What about John 14:6? If one denies this and worships other gods / idols (or themselves), they will still be saved? Then what was the use in Jesus saying what he did in that verse?

      There are literally BILLIONS of people that have died not even knowing that Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life. Do you think it’s just and holy for them to be tortured in real fire for all eternity for never calling on a name they never even heard of? Listen, most of the world’s entire population dies and will die in the state of being lost – perished. Salvation comes in the RESURRECTION when God will judge the world in RIGHTEOUSNESS and most certainly not with eternal torture. When God’s “judgments” are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS. Learning righteousness is the purpose of God’s judgment not torture. There is no moral or redeeming value in torturing people. Torture is not punishment nor is it judgment. It is insane evil… When everyone has been subjected to God’s judgment, every tongue will confess and openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord (sovereign God), to the glory of God the Father (Philippians 2:11). You see, the salvation of all is what brings glory to God and not the eternal torture of billions of mothers, fathers, grandparents, and children.

      Do you honestly believe that someone like Paul Bernardo will be in heaven (the new earth) along with the girls that he tortured, raped / sodomized, murdered and dismembered? How would God’s justice be perfect if he granted him and others like him with the gift of eternal life?

      Actually I don’t believe that Paul Bernardo will be in heaven because I don’t believe that ANYBODY will be in heaven. Christ tells us in John 3:13 that NO man has ascended up to “heaven” however, that scripture doesn’t stop millions of Christians from believing that they will ascend to “heaven” when they die nor does it stop them from believing that other scriptures such as Luke 23:43 or 2 Corinthians 5:8 contradict the words of Christ in John 3:13. God’s kingdom of heaven is not a real physical place in the sky; it is an invisible spiritual realm in which one is being transformed into the image of Christ. Christendom teaches that “heaven” or the “kingdom of God” is a real physical kingdom in outer space somewhere with real streets of gold, pearly gates, and babies flying around playing harps. That idea is nothing more than a product of the carnal human mind that cannot interpret or understand the things of God. In Luke 17:21, Christ says that the kingdom of God (heaven) is WITHIN YOU… When people die, they go to the grave where they await one of two resurrections – the resurrection to life or the resurrection to judgment. Nobody goes to a “heaven” or a “hell”. This teaching and belief of a literal afterlife came from just about every heathen nation. God doesn’t promise anyone “eternal life” but rather “aionious” age-abiding life. Those who rise in the first resurrection are granted with this additional age of life in the kingdom of God but these are represented only by the elect few that overcome the world of sin, evil, and deception. Paul Bernardo will not rise in the first resurrection but let me show you the hypocrisy of Christianity. Had Paul Bernardo repented of his sin and accepted Jesus Christ as his savior according to the practices of Christianity, he would be in the Christian heaven. Christian salvation requires no judgment and no overcoming of sin, just the parroting of a 10 second prayer… Do you think the Apostle Paul will be in the Christian “heaven”? He was a murderer and a persecutor of God’s people… How do you think his murder victims would feel about seeing the person who killed them in “heaven”? Do you not see the foolishness with this literal Christian belief of “heaven”? The Apostle Paul was “converted” and throughout his entire life, he experienced JUDGMENT but he overcame all the way to death. Paul Bernardo will rise in the resurrection to judgment and he will be judged accordingly. I think it is sad that you think God’s perfect justice would be to torture Paul Bernardo in real fire not for 100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 years but for ALL ETERNITY… Unbelievable… Have you ever been burned with fire? Maybe on a stove or lighting a candle… Imagine that feeling all over your body in a body that can never die or burn up. Just too even contemplate on such a concept is sickening but for those that openly accept and embrace it, there is no lower level of human depravity that one can descend to.

      Are we not forbidden to enter the kingdom of heaven without dying to our sin and being reborn? You seem to suggest a belief in purgatory when you claim that those who die without denying themselves and doing the will of the Father will undergo a refining fire which will cleanse them and make them fit for entry into heaven. Yes, the heaven and the earth will undergo refinement by fire, and our works will be tested by it, but I think you are incorrect about said fire purging enemies of the Lord of their wickedness.

      Like I’ve stated earlier, the kingdom of heaven is not a real place like Disneyland. You simply believe too much Christian fantasy and you continue to subject me to a line of inquiry that requires me to accept the doctrines of Christianity as truth rather than farce. I do not believe in anything close to a purgatory. I believe what the scriptures teach which includes futures resurrections of judgment that will result in the salvation of all. Nobody is “reborn” in this life as long as we live in these bodies of sin and corruption. Believers have God’s Spirit in “earnest” but it doesn’t yet appear what we should be. What do you think the will of the Father is and do you think God’s will WILL be done? God’s “will” WILL be done regardless of the wills of sinful men. It is God that works in the lives of believers, believers who were granted with the gift of faith to believe in the first place to do of God’s good pleasure.

      If universalism is true and Jesus is ultimately going to save every single human being that has ever lived, then why do you suppose he hasn’t returned yet? Why not put an end to all the chaos, death, suffering, famine, torture, rape, human tracking, slavery, etc. now and swiftly return? Why draw things out for so long (yes, I know, time is different to us than it is to God, but that doesn’t negate, that in our perspective, the world has been suffering for ages) if we’re all just going to be saved anyway? Why not just override the mess of this current order of existence and go straight to the paradise that awaits us? I guess it could be possible that not every human that God intends to exist and be part of his future kingdom has been born yet, and thus the timing of Christ’s return isn’t appropriate. Why would things need to get any better or worse to bring about the parousia?

      I have a better question for you… If eternal damnation in hell is true and Jesus is ultimately going to fail at saving the majority of the world’s mothers, fathers, grandparents, children, and grandchildren, why do you suppose that God created humanity in the first place seeing that God is all-knowing and knows that most of the world will go to hell according to Christianity? I think it is ironic that you speak of Christ returning speedily as to put an end to all of the worlds “chaos, death, suffering, famine, torture, rape, human tracking, and slavery” yet have no issue with the billions of people Christianity cosigns to spend an ETERNITY being tortured in hell. You see, Christians understands very little about God’s plan for humanity. We are being created in the image of God and that image requires having the knowledge of good and EVIL. Good can only be understood and recognized when it is contrasted with evil. This is why the knowledge of good and evil were both created in the same tree; you can’t separate good from evil for they are dependent on each other to be defined. This is the wisdom of God and God is giving humanity this experience of evil in this life to humble us. God is not stupid and He knows what He is doing with His creation.

      Lastly, how do you explain Matthew 7:21-23?

      These verses have nothing to do with salvation. What group of people refer to Jesus as Lord Lord? What group of people prophesy in the name of Jesus Christ? What group of people cast out devils in the name of Jesus Christ? What group of people do many WONDERFUL works in the name of Jesus Christ?

      The ONLY group of people on the face of this earth in all generations that fits all of these descriptors would be Christ-followers i.e. CHRISTIANS… So not every professing Christ-follower or Christian shall enter into the kingdom of heaven… There will be millions of Christians that will rise in the resurrection to judgment having realized that they missed out on reigning with Christ and there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

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  12. I appreciate your thoroughness and your are evidently a bright man, but I think you are wrong in regards to salvation.

    I assume you don’t consider yourself a Christian, given your disdain for the church. If that is so, what are you? N.T wright (who is the world’s leading scholar on The New Testament) has admitted that the church hasn’t been without its problems throughout the centuries, but to completely dismiss it — and with such vitriol, as you do — is heading into dangerous territory. What if your harsh criticisms are wrong and you have to answer for them in front of God? Though with a universalist mindset, I guess there is less apprehension on your part, seeing as you believe that all will be saved, no matter what they do, say or believe.

    Why would Christ save those that blatantly and overtly mock him? What about those that blaspheme the Holy Spirit (Matthew 12:31) how do you reconcile their supposed forgiveness? Isn’t that the one unforgivable sin? What about John 14:6? If one denies this and worships other gods / idols (or themselves), they will still be saved? Then what was the use in Jesus saying what he did in that verse?

    Do you honestly believe that someone like Paul Bernardo will be in heaven (the new earth) along with the girls that he tortured, raped / sodomized, murdered and dismembered? How would God’s justice be perfect if he granted him and others like him with the gift of eternal life?

    Are we not forbidden to enter the kingdom of heaven without dying to our sin and being reborn? You seem to suggest a belief in purgatory when you claim that those who die without denying themselves and doing the will of the Father will undergo a refining fire which will cleanse them and make them fit for entry into heaven. Yes, the heaven and the earth will undergo refinement by fire, and our works will be tested by it, but I think you are incorrect about said fire purging enemies of the Lord of their wickedness.

    If universalism is true and Jesus is ultimately going to save every single human being that has ever lived, then why do you suppose he hasn’t returned yet? Why not put an end to all the chaos, death, suffering, famine, torture, rape, human tracking, slavery, etc. now and swiftly return? Why draw things out for so long (yes, I know, time is different to us than it is to God, but that doesn’t negate, that in our perspective, the world has been suffering for ages) if we’re all just going to be saved anyway? Why not just override the mess of this current order of existence and go straight to the paradise that awaits us? I guess it could be possible that not every human that God intends to exist and be part of his future kingdom has been born yet, and thus the timing of Christ’s return isn’t appropriate. Why would things need to get any better or worse to bring about the parousia?

    Lastly, how do you explain Matthew 7:21-23?

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  13. Re 1 Timothy 4:10, I’m curious how you would critique the following: https://faculty.gordon.edu/hu/bi/ted_hildebrandt/ntesources/ntarticles/wtj-nt/baugh-1tim4saviorall-wtj.htm

    ” You are misinformed in saying that I believe that all will be saved no matter what they do, say, or believe. None of my teachings even suggest such nonsense but that is a common lie that is posed on those who believe in the salvation of all because most do not understand what the scriptures teach on this matter.” I’m confused. Aren’t you contradicting yourself here? It seems that on one hand you’re saying not all will be saved, and on the other hand you believe in the salvation of all. Can you clarify this point?

    “How many so called “Christians” mock Christ by believing that he will fail at following through with his commission from the Father as the “Savior of the world” (1 John 4:14)? How many professing “Christians” mock Christ by believing that his atoning work of dying on the cross was an unsatisfactory propitiation to cover the sins of the world (1 John 2:2)?

    Those verses don’t necessarily mean that Christ will atone for all, but that through him the whole world has the opportunity to be saved.

    Consider John 11:52, namely: “children of God” (the elect for the whole world).

    The bible may not include the verbatim phrase: ‘unforgivable sin’, but Matthew 12:31 does say blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven. That is the only thing I can think of in scripture that is emphasized as being unabsolvable.

    “If my son lies to me and I tell him that he will not play his XBOX this week or the next week after that, how absurd would it be for me to call his behavior an unforgivable lie? The consequence for lying is the two weeks and the implication is clear that playing the XBOX again will be restored after the two week consequence period ends. So in contrast with Matthew 12:32, this world or age comes to an end at the second coming of Christ. The next age is the 1,000 year reign of the saints of God with Christ on EARTH in the spiritual kingdom of God. That age also comes to an end and the next age is the age of judgment. It is in this age of judgment when blasphemy of the Holy Spirit will be forgiven. FYI – just so you know, believing in the hell of Christianity is blasphemy of the Spirit of God but like I said before, most don’t even know that they’ve committed this offense because of deception.”

    The hypothetical scenario about your son is a false equivalency and it is also irrelevant. God’s ways are not our ways. God doesn’t have to meet ‘our’ expectations of what is right and fair. As for the latter part of this quote: what are you citing when you suggest that blasphemy of the Holy Spirit will be forgiven when people are raised to judgement? I assume you would also believe that at this time thatall will be redeemed?

    “There are literally BILLIONS of people that have died not even knowing that Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life. Do you think it’s just and holy for them to be tortured in real fire for all eternity for never calling on a name they never even heard of? Listen, most of the world’s entire population dies and will die in the state of being lost – perished. Salvation comes in the RESURRECTION when God will judge the world in RIGHTEOUSNESS and most certainly not with eternal torture. When God’s “judgments” are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS. Learning righteousness is the purpose of God’s judgment not torture. There is no moral or redeeming value in torturing people. Torture is not punishment nor is it judgment. It is insane evil… When everyone has been subjected to God’s judgment, every tongue will confess and openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord (sovereign God), to the glory of God the Father (Philippians 2:11). You see, the salvation of all is what brings glory to God and not the eternal torture of billions of mothers, fathers, grandparents, and children.”

    It doesn’t matter what I think, as I won’t be their judge. You’re also making the assumption that I (and perhaps all Christians are fundamentalists that take everything in the bible as a literal representation of such and such, while ignoring the symbolic nature of the literature). I never said or implied a belief in a literal fiery hell where people burn for eternity for denying Christ. I’m not sure what eternal separation from God would be like, and perhaps the traditional depiction of hell is the best way it could be portrayed for our finite minds to understand how intensely horrible it would be to be entirely divorced from God.

    You are correct that many have and continue to die without ever knowing Jesus. I don’t know how God would deal with said people and I don’t think it is fair to assume that all Christians believe these people will perish. Surely there can be middle ground, but I don’t think scripture makes it clear what their destiny is. Perhaps they would be judged according to their level of understanding and how they behaved given their education or lack thereof (i.e. did they exemplify Christ-like qualities towards their fellow people: love, respect, kindness, patience, forgiveness, sacrifice, selflessness, etc.)

    We all may ‘learn’ righteousness, but that doesn’t necessarily translate into salvation. A convicted thief may see nothing wrong with his actions, but after sitting in a jail cell for years he might come to the realization that what he did was wrong, but that doesn’t negate his unlawful conduct. Also what is meant by the term ‘learn?’ Is it simply the act of knowing what is good or changing for the better because of that knowledge? We all know right from wrong, but that doesn’t stop us from consciously rejecting good in favour of evil. You hold to the belief that there is a second chance in the resurrection of all people. In that time, all will recognize their wrongs and turn to the Lord. I’m not convinced that is true, as we have an abundance of time and multiple chances in this life to seek him, and most refuse to do so. The Lord is more patient than we deserve in the here and now, and I don’t know that the window will remain open beyond our current lives and to those who have come and gone and will be raised.

    “You see, the salvation of all is what brings glory to God and not the eternal torture of billions of mothers, fathers, grandparents, and children.”

    I believe that every child that dies is saved as they haven’t lived long enough to develop critical thinking skills and can not make a conscious, well informed descision to accept or reject Christ. Children are innocent and don’t possess the same reasoning skills as an adult and therefore can’t be held accountable for their actions.

    “Torture is not punishment nor is it judgment. It is insane evil… When everyone has been subjected to God’s judgment, every tongue will confess and openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord (sovereign God), to the glory of God the Father (Philippians 2:11). You see, the salvation of all is what brings glory to God and not the eternal torture of billions of mothers, fathers, grandparents, and children.”.

    Hypothetically speaking, let’s say that hell as it is depicted in scripture is correct; or that God’s answer for the unrepentent was torture of another variation; some existence of darkness where God is never present; annihilation, etc. Whatever God would decide would be perfect as he is all knowing, is just and can do no wrong. We humans like to act as though we stand on a moral high ground and can cast judgement on God, as if we have superior moral wisdom ingrained in us. We like to talk about things in terms fairness, which falls victim to the logical fallacy of appeal to emotion. God doesn’t have to operate in such a way that correlates with our sensibilities.

    Confessing that Jesus Christ is Lord isn’t incontrovertible proof that such an admission of belief will result in salvation. All will definitely proclaim that Jesus Christ is Lord, but it is merely your interpretation that what follows is forgiveness and eternal life with God. A serial killer may admit on death row that his deeds were evil and that he is sorry to the victims and their families, but that wouldn’t prevent him from being executed. Let me turn this example towards you. If a man were to murder your son, what would be entail justice, in your view? I believe you are located in Tennessee, and that state has the death penalty. Would you prefer that the man face life in prison or have lethal injection, or something else? Would a sincere admission of his guilt suffice?

    By “heaven” I was referring to a state of existence (namely, the new earth / our restored and final home) rather than to God’s current domain (which isn’t in ouster space, but in another dimension, intermingled with earth, thought not yet joined). I don’t believe in the gnostic, disembodied heaven of clouds and harp plucking. Actually, that view may in fact be a product of the devil, purposely deceiving people into thinking that heaven is not only a detachment from our bodies, but an unrelenting musical homage to God. I think anyone would be turned off by such a state of existence because it is foreign to everything we know and leaves no room for any of the various things that bring us joy and pleasure.

    In regards to Paul Bernardo, let me rephrase. Will he walk on the new earth along with his victims? Where is the justice in him having everlasting life when he stole the lives of beautiful, innocent girls that barely got to enjoy theirs? His destiny won’t necessarily be an eternity of burning, but surely he doesn’t deserve to taste the beauty and perfection that awaits those that follow Christ?

    “I have a better question for you… If eternal damnation in hell is true and Jesus is ultimately going to fail at saving the majority of the world’s mothers, fathers, grandparents, children, and grandchildren, why do you suppose that God created humanity in the first place seeing that God is all-knowing and knows that most of the world will go to hell according to Christianity.”

    Again, you’re assuming I believe in some fiery netherworld. Who is to say that this would be Jesus’ failure? If people consciously place all their focus on worldly things and want nothing to do with Christ, wouldn’t a fate separated from God (however that might look) be their own failure? No one deserves to be saved and why is there an onus on Christ to come through for those who despise him? If they want nothing to do with him, that is their prerogative, and I’m not sure that Christ is obliged to save them no matter what.

    “The ONLY group of people on the face of this earth in all generations that fits all of these descriptors would be Christ-followers i.e. CHRISTIANS… So not every professing Christ-follower or Christian shall enter into the kingdom of heaven… There will be millions of Christians that will rise in the resurrection to judgment having realized that they missed out on reigning with Christ and there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

    Why are you using the term ‘kingdom of heaven’ if you say it doesn’t exist? What do you suppose the weeping and gnashing and teeth means?

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    1. 1) “Re 1 Timothy 4:10, I’m curious how you would critique the following”

      What would be the purpose of me critiquing that link you have provided? You are already convinced in your mind that universal salvation isn’t true. The only reason why 1 Timothy 4:10 is a problem for you and the theologians of Christianity is because you all do not want God to save the whole world. Christianity does NOT think that it is good or acceptable for God to save ALL Humanity… When the theologians of Christianity come across a scripture they despise such as 1 Timothy 4:10, they have to call on their most sacred idol which is the idol of “context” so that they can justify “changing” the word of God. I am convinced that anybody can use “context” to make any scripture mean whatever they want it to mean and the theologians of Christianity are masters of using that deceptive tactic.

      Let’s suppose that 1 Timothy 4:10 was stated as so;

      For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is ONLY the Saviour of those that believe.

      If 1 Timothy 4:10 was written in this way, it would be used by every pastor, theologian, and virtually all Christians all over the world so as to debunk the belief in universal salvation. The theologians of Christianity would have no need to call upon their god of context because they “agree” with the idea of God ONLY being the savior of believers. Contextual interpretation is a weapon of spiritual destruction and it is nothing more than an example of the wisdom of this world that God calls foolishness in 1 Corinthians 3:19.

      2) “I’m confused. Aren’t you contradicting yourself here? It seems that on one hand you’re saying not all will be saved, and on the other hand you believe in the salvation of all. Can you clarify this point?”

      All will be saved but not all will be saved at the same time. Paul tells us in 1 Corinthians 15:22-23 that all shall be made alive in Christ but EVERY man in his own ORDER. Everyone doesn’t experience God’s salvation at the same time. God is calling His chosen elect out of the world to reign with Christ in the kingdom of God at the second coming of Christ. That is the first order of people being made alive in Christ. In resurrection to judgement, God will judge the world in righteousness and when God’s judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness. That is the second and final order of all being made alive in Christ.

      3) “1 John 4:14; 1 John 2:2 – Those verses don’t necessarily mean that Christ will atone for all, but that through him the whole world has the opportunity to be saved.”

      Hogwash… all you have done here is interpreted those scriptures in a way so that they will align with what you have learned as a Christian. You need to believe that Christ will not atone for all as long as you believe that the lost are doomed to a place called hell or eternal separation from God. What kind of a savior of the world doesn’t actually save the whole world? Or maybe Christ is just the “potential” savior of the world?

      4) Consider John 11:52, namely: “children of God” (the elect for the whole world).

      Let’s look at the whole verse: John 11:52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.
      Did you even read the verse? The children of God are not being referenced here as the elect. Jesus is going to die for the nation of the Jews and NOT FOR THAT NATION ONLY but that also He (Jesus) should gather together IN ONE – the children of God that were “scattered abroad”. Now what group of people or other nation would be classified as being “scattered abroad”? It is the Gentiles… God through Christ is going to gather all nations together in one because He is the propitiation of the sins of the whole world which makes Him the Savior of the Whole World.

      5) “The bible may not include the verbatim phrase: ‘unforgivable sin’, but Matthew 12:31 does say blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven. That is the only thing I can think of in scripture that is emphasized as being unabsolvable.”

      Matthew 12:31 does say that blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven but Matthew 12:32 says that speaking against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven him, NEITHER IN THIS WORLD, NEITHER IN THE WORLD TO COME. So Matthew 12:32 means absolutely nothing to you right? You shut the door on billions of people from receiving “God’s salvation” because you simply do not want them to be saved. Matthew 12:31-32 are both part of the same thought so you cannot just pick and choose which words to believe and which words to leave out. Matthew 12:32 does not contradict Matthew 12:31 but rather, it supports it with additional information. The analogy I used about my son was only meant to compare the time constraints that were placed on the associated punishment as it is described in the scriptures. You went way overboard with your assessment indicating that you clearly missed my point. God’s ways are certainly not our ways but that is a good thing for I am confident that whatever is right and fair to God would “greatly” EXCEED our expectations.

      6) “As for the latter part of this quote: what are you citing when you suggest that blasphemy of the Holy Spirit will be forgiven when people are raised to judgement? I assume you would also believe that at this time that all will be redeemed?”

      I will quote you by stating that the bible may not include the verbatim phrase, “blasphemy of the Holy Spirit will be forgiven when people are raised to judgment” but I can show you how one can come to that conclusion by comparing scripture with scripture.

      John 5:28-30 Marvel not at this: for the hour cometh, in which all that are in the tombs shall hear his voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and THEY THAT HAVE DONE EVIL, UNTO THE RESURRECTION OF JUDGMENT. I can of myself do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and MY JUDGMENT IS RIGHTEOUS; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

      Acts 17:31 Because He has set a day when He WILL JUDGE THE INHABITED WORLD IN RIGHTEOUSNESS by a Man whom He has appointed and destined for that task, and He has provided credible proof to everyone by raising Him from the dead.”

      Isaiah 26:9 …for WHEN THY JUDGMENTS ARE IN THE EARTH, THE INHABITANTS OF THE WORLD WILL LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS.
      Those that committed blasphemy of the Holy Spirit will rise in the resurrection to judgment where they will be judged in righteousness thus learning righteousness. Through God’s righteousness judgments, they will learn not to blaspheme the Holy Spirit and will be forgiven.

      Mark 3:28-29 `Verily I say to you, that all the sins shall be forgiven to the sons of men, and evil speakings with which they might speak evil, but whoever may speak evil in regard to the Holy Spirit HATH NOT FORGIVENESS — TO THE AGE, BUT IS IN DANGER OF AGE-DURING JUDGMENT;’ (Young’s Literal Translation)

      This translation is a better rendering of the true meaning of the Greek.

      7) “It doesn’t matter what I think, as I won’t be their judge. You’re also making the assumption that I (and perhaps all Christians are fundamentalists that take everything in the bible as a literal representation of such and such, while ignoring the symbolic nature of the literature). I never said or implied a belief in a literal fiery hell where people burn for eternity for denying Christ. I’m not sure what eternal separation from God would be like, and perhaps the traditional depiction of hell is the best way it could be portrayed for our finite minds to understand how intensely horrible it would be to be entirely divorced from God.”

      If you are a “true” follower of Christ, then you will be their judge… Do you not know that THE SAINTS WILL JUDGE THE WORLD (1 Corinthians 6:2)? I don’t waste my time trying to figure out what kind of a Christian people are and I make conclusions based primarily on their actions. You may have never said that you believe in a literal fiery hell but you certainly implied such by sending me a link with the title, “The Reality of Hell” claiming it to be “worth reading”. I know that there are differences of opinion in regards to the doctrine of hell but that is not my problem. Hell is a Christian doctrine and so I think it is reasonable for anyone to presume that a professing Christian would believe in hell. I do not believe in ANY kind of a hell and there is NO such thing as “eternal separation” from God. That idea is just a Christian invention but the scriptures speak of NO such thing. Even death is likened to sleep and all rise from their sleep which is symbolism for the resurrection of the dead.

      8) “You are correct that many have and continue to die without ever knowing Jesus. I don’t know how God would deal with said people and I don’t think it is fair to assume that all Christians believe these people will perish. Surely there can be middle ground, but I don’t think scripture makes it clear what their destiny is. Perhaps they would be judged according to their level of understanding and how they behaved given their education or lack thereof (i.e. did they exemplify Christ-like qualities towards their fellow people: love, respect, kindness, patience, forgiveness, sacrifice, selflessness, etc.)”

      I don’t think’s its fair for Christians to cosign billions of parents and grandparents to an eternal hell but they still do it. My father and grandfather both died in 2008 and neither one of them were Christians. My grandfather was an alcoholic and my father was a drug addict. I can’t be 100% certain but if I had to guess, I would say they both died in their sins… According to Christianity, my father and grandfather are presently being tortured in hell where they have been for the last 9 years with no hope of rescue, mercy, or forgiveness. I don’t care how much you try to protect your religion or paint Christianity in some good light but that is just evil and I won’t sugar coat it. It is not possible for me to know what ALL Christians believe but I do know what Christianity teaches and as a religion, Christianity teaches some pretty damnable heresies with the eternal hell being the absolute epitome of evil. The scriptures do in fact explain how God will bring about repentance and forgiveness in all but many are just too carnal minded and deceived to understand it nor do they want to.

      9) “We all may ‘learn’ righteousness, but that doesn’t necessarily translate into salvation.”

      If learning righteousness doesn’t translate into salvation then what must a person do to be saved? By repeating a 10 second prayer and then going to a church building one day a week? By prophesying, casting out demons, and doing many wonderful works in the name of Jesus Christ? By being religious? I think not… What is repentance? Isn’t repentance turning away from evil and doing what is right? If a person learns not to do evil things and begins to practice righteousness, you will still find a way for them to be disqualified from “God’s” salvation because you simply do not want God to save the inhabitants of the world.

      10) “A convicted thief may see nothing wrong with his actions, but after sitting in a jail cell for years he might come to the realization that what he did was wrong, but that doesn’t negate his unlawful conduct.”

      Your hypothetical scenario about the convicted thief is a false equivalency and it is also irrelevant. A convicted thief may see “everything” wrong with his actions but still decide to steal without considering or even caring about the consequences because people don’t do wrong because they don’t know it’s wrong, they do it because they want to. They want to covet something without having the legal means to obtain i.e. money so they decide to steal to get it but people can be rehabilitated and that is why jails are called “correctional facilities” because the goal is to correct. Understanding wrongdoing and learning to do what is right is a process that results in changes of future behavior. It has nothing to do with negating a person’s past unlawful conduct. If I get caught speeding and receive $100 fine, the fine doesn’t negate the original speeding offense but having to pay the $100 fine might encourage me not to speed in the future.

      11) “Also what is meant by the term ‘learn?’ Is it simply the act of knowing what is good or changing for the better because of that knowledge? We all know right from wrong, but that doesn’t stop us from consciously rejecting good in favor of evil.”

      Well according to the Merriam-Webster dictionary, the term “learn” is defined as gaining or acquiring knowledge of or skill in (something) by study, experience, or being taught. Knowing what is good has little to do with “learning” to do that which is good. A child doesn’t have to be taught how to lie but they certainly must be taught why they should tell the truth. I have four children from ages 3-15 so I know, trust me… Sure we all know right from wrong but learning righteousness is a process. A young child doesn’t just “know” how to read. They must LEARN how to read by studying and being taught how to read by someone who can read. Learning to do anything is a process… You seem to believe that people can just choose to do good without any influence from God. The scriptures tell us in Romans 3:12 that there is NONE that does good, not even one… When God created humanity, he created us subject to vanity (weakness) and we were all accustomed to do evil (Romans 8:20, Jeremiah 13:23). Even Jesus in his humility rebuked a rich man for referring to him as Good Master and corrected him by saying, there is none good but one, that is, God… It is God that works in us to do of His good pleasure but God also makes vessels of honor and vessels of dishonor (Romans 9:21). In order for people to have knowledge of good and evil, good and evil must exist and that is why we have good people and evil people. Evil is necessary for the instruction of righteousness so that evil can be overcome. Evil is overcome with righteousness, not additional evil…

      12) “You hold to the belief that there is a second chance in the resurrection of all people. In that time, all will recognize their wrongs and turn to the Lord. I’m not convinced that is true, as we have an abundance of time and multiple chances in this life to seek him, and most refuse to do so. The Lord is more patient than we deserve in the here and now, and I don’t know that the window will remain open beyond our current lives and to those who have come and gone and will be raised.”

      Here again, your understanding of things is based more on Christian tradition as opposed to what the scriptures teach. You hold to the belief that a person must “choose” Christ in this life before they die or suffer the damnation of eternal separation from God be it hell or whatever you want to call it. Not only is that belief “unscriptural” it is heresy.

      John 6:44 NO ONE can come to Me (Christ) unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.

      God the Father must draw a person to Christ before they can come to Christ. Going to church is not being drawn to Christ. Being convicted of sin and repeating a 10 second sinner’s prayer is not being drawn to Christ. Christ tells us how all will be drawn to himself in John 12:32;

      And WHEN I AM LIFTED UP FROM THE EARTH, I WILL DRAW EVERYONE TO MYSELF.”

      God will draw EVERYONE to CHRIST based on the fact that Christ was lifted up from the earth on the cross of Calvary to die for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD. Jesus Christ is the “propitiation” for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD. Now, it is clear that God is not drawing all of the inhabitants of the world to Christ in this wicked age that has been given to Satan to deceive the nations. All being drawn to Christ is yet, a future event as in the resurrection to judgment when Christ (with the saints of God) will judge the world in “righteousness”. Not only will the inhabitants of the world “learn righteousness”… they will be saved. This is the good news of Jesus Christ but you simply despise it as does all of Christianity. You will find any and every way possible to change the meaning of the scriptures so that they will align with your corrupt thinking of an eternal hell be it eternal torture in fire or eternal separation from God.

      Revelation 22:17 The Spirit and the bride say, “Come.” Let anyone who hears this say, “Come.” Let anyone who is thirsty come. Let anyone who desires drink freely from the water of life.

      Let me ask you this… who is being addressed in this scripture? Who is being told to “Come”? The bride is the body of Christ or the saints of God and we can clearly see that the saints of God are telling someone to “Come”. Who are they talking to? They are talking to the “inhabitants of the world”… Trust me when I say that the inhabitants of the world will be very thirsty after being subjected to the purging fire of God’s judgment and all will drink freely from the water of life after having learned about the righteousness of God.

      13) “I believe that every child that dies is saved as they haven’t lived long enough to develop critical thinking skills and cannot make a conscious, well informed decision to accept or reject Christ. Children are innocent and don’t possess the same reasoning skills as an adult and therefore can’t be held accountable for their actions.”

      Salvation has nothing to do with making a well informed decision to accept or reject Christ and as long as you think that, you will never understand the gospel of Christ. Every child that dies is dead just as any human that dies will be dead because salvation is for the living not for the dead. Salvation comes in the resurrection of the dead and not immediately after death or during death.

      14) “Hypothetically speaking, let’s say that hell as it is depicted in scripture is correct; or that God’s answer for the unrepentant was torture of another variation; some existence of darkness where God is never present; annihilation, etc.” Whatever God would decide would be perfect as he is all knowing, is just and can do no wrong. We humans like to act as though we stand on a moral high ground and can cast judgement on God, as if we have superior moral wisdom ingrained in us. We like to talk about things in terms fairness, which falls victim to the logical fallacy of appeal to emotion. God doesn’t have to operate in such a way that correlates with our sensibilities.”

      So basically you are saying that if God chose to do evil, He would actually not be doing evil because He is perfect, all knowing, just, and can do no wrong? That is the most foolish and ridiculous comment I have ever heard and you prove by your words that there is no limit to how far human depravity can descend. God is creating humans for the purpose of knowing and understanding good and evil (His image). That is what morality is – the ability to discern right from wrong. Human morality is not higher than God’s morality because God’s ways are HIGHER (not lower) than ours. Sinful human beings have the ability to know evil and when most moral people see evil occurring in the world, it is utterly shunned. Do you think God who is our Creator lacks this same ability to discern and abhor evil? Wouldn’t God’s standard for doing what is right be at a much higher level than that of weak human beings? I am blown away that you – as a professing Christian would even make such a asinine statement. Evil is evil and good is good. In the land of the sane, there is no situation or any circumstance that would change something that is evil from being evil to then be perceived or considered as something good. All of the characteristics that you attributed to God (perfection, all knowing, just, and doing no wrong) are only accurate if God operates in ways that align with the meanings of those words. A perfect and just God is NOT immoral and I could care less how hard you try to justify your position with a bogus hypothesis.

      15) “Confessing that Jesus Christ is Lord isn’t incontrovertible proof that such an admission of belief will result in salvation. All will definitely proclaim that Jesus Christ is Lord, but it is merely your interpretation that what follows is forgiveness and eternal life with God.”

      There is NO “incontrovertible proof” of any of this stuff and that is why believers have what is called “faith” so that argument is invalid. You agree that all will definitely proclaim that Jesus Christ is Lord but I am willing to wager that you do not know why all will proclaim that Jesus Christ is Lord. 1 Corinthians 12:3 says that no one can say that Jesus is Lord but by the Holy Spirit so this at least provides some support that the Holy Spirit will be influencing the “ALL” that will ultimately confess that Jesus is Lord. If the spirit of God is influencing everyone, then maybe it’s not such a stretch to believe that this confession results in the salvation of all since we are told in 1 Corinthians 15:28 that God will be ALL in ALL. If God is going to be “ALL in ALL”, then I think it would be kinda hard for anybody to be “separated” from God as you continually suggest.

      16) “A serial killer may admit on death row that his deeds were evil and that he is sorry to the victims and their families, but that wouldn’t prevent him from being executed.”

      Your serial killer analogy in NO way comes even close to being similar to the event in which “ALL” will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. This has nothing to do with people feeling remorseful for their sins. When the whole world is subjected to Christ’s authority, “ALL” will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord not by force or remorse but rather because of the goodness of God. This event will be glorious and not some sad doomsday Christian nightmare of sinner’s having a sob-fest as they are sent away to God’s concentration camp called hell. There will be plenty of reproach in the judgment which is all a part of the process of “learning righteousness” but eventually the learning will stop because all will become righteous.

      17) “Let me turn this example towards you. If a man were to murder your son, what would entail justice, in your view? I believe you are located in Tennessee, and that state has the death penalty. Would you prefer that the man face life in prison or have lethal injection, or something else? Would a sincere admission of his guilt suffice?”

      Well, it wouldn’t matter that much what my personal idea of justice would be because it is not up to individual citizens to carry out matters of judgment against criminals. In our civilized society, we have a criminal justice system in place that is responsible for handling situations like this and murder more times than not typically carries a life sentence. The murderer’s personal admission of guilt wouldn’t absolve his culpability of murder from the courts. So again, this example is further invalid because it too has nothing to do with people confessing Christ to be Lord from feeling guilty about their sin. All will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord because God has highly exalted Him and given Him a name which is above every name…

      18) “In regards to Paul Bernardo, let me rephrase. Will he walk on the new earth along with his victims? Where is the justice in him having everlasting life when he stole the lives of beautiful, innocent girls that barely got to enjoy theirs? His destiny won’t necessarily be an eternity of burning, but surely he doesn’t deserve to taste the beauty and perfection that awaits those that follow Christ?”

      What makes you think that Paul Bernardo or his victims will still be the same kind of people from the old earthly perspective in the “new earth”? If the old earth is passed away, then maybe it is possible that the citizens of the “new earth” will not be subject to the carnal ways of the old earth in which we hold grudges, refuse to forgive, seek vengeance, and hate our enemies… Perhaps, the inhabitants of the “new earth” will embody the full manifestation of the fruits of the Spirit listed in Galatians 5:22 that include love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, and faith. You have made it painfully clear to me that you do not understand the purpose of evil and why evil is necessary in God’s plan for creating humanity in His image and that is why nearly all of your questions are scripturally and spiritually incoherent. Listen, nearly every single person that has ever lived has been “victimized” by someone in their life and more times than not, that victimization came from either their own parents or some other loved one. My father was abusive towards me, my mother, and my two sisters and I hated him when I was a teenager but as I got older and matured into adulthood, I began to understand how flawed humanity is and I LEARNED to forgive my father. And what was it that Christ taught about forgiveness?

      Matthew 6:14-15 If you forgive those who sin against you, your heavenly Father will forgive you. But if you refuse to forgive others, your Father will not forgive your sins. (Maybe Christ was just kidding…)

      I know that my father may not rise in the first resurrection to life to reign with Christ in the kingdom of God, but I am satisfied with the knowledge that my father will have the opportunity to learn righteousness when he is brought under the power of God’s judgment in the second resurrection to judgment. So with that said, Paul Bernardo will rise in the second resurrection where he will be judged according to his works but in the end, he will “learn righteousness”. Now, I have already commented on this everlasting life business that you continue to bring up but once again, God does NOT promise “everlasting life” to anyone. Everlasting is not a proper translation for the Greek word “aionious” and here are a few examples of some more responsible translations of John 3:16;

      For God did so love the world, that His Son — the only begotten — He gave, that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but MAY HAVE LIFE AGE-DURING. (Young’s Literal Translation)

      For God, so loved, the world, that, his Only Begotten Son, he gave,—that, whosoever believeth on him, might not perish, but HAVE LIFE AGE-ABIDING. (Rotherham’s Emphasized Bible)

      For thus God loves the world, so that He gives His only-begotten Son, that everyone who is believing in Him should not be perishing, but MAY BE HAVING LIFE EONIAN. (The Concordant Literal New Testament)

      Thus for loved the God the world, so that the son of himself the only-begotten he gave, that every one who believing into him, not may be destroyed, but MAY HAVE LIFE AGE-LASTING. (The Emphatic Diaglott)

      Do you think that the translators of these four different bible translations came to their conclusions without some merit at the least? It may be difficult to accept that God’s promise is not “eternal life” seeing that there are MANY more bible translations that do state that the promise is in fact “eternal life” but I suppose that maybe that is the case because the way to life is “narrow” and only a FEW actually find it. In regards to your belief in everlasting life, you have not presented any argument to the contrary but instead choose to ignore what I have presented. That is your right and I am certainly not requiring you to defend your position but just know that I will not respond to or entertain any future comments of yours with reference to eternal/everlasting life until you do some due diligence and at least respond to what I have said on this matter.

      19) “Again, you’re assuming I believe in some fiery netherworld. Who is to say that this would be Jesus’ failure? If people consciously place all their focus on worldly things and want nothing to do with Christ, wouldn’t a fate separated from God (however that might look) be their own failure? No one deserves to be saved and why is there an onus on Christ to come through for those who despise him? If they want nothing to do with him, that is their prerogative, and I’m not sure that Christ is obliged to save them no matter what.”

      I assumed that you believe in the Christian hell based on the fact that you sent me a link about an article discussing the realities of the Christian hell. If you don’t endorse that garbage then why did you send me the link? Jesus Christ is the Savior of the World… that is His title as it was given to Him as an anointing from God the Father. To suggest that Jesus Christ will not save the whole world is to attribute failure to Him and God. Who is sovereign and almighty? From your perspective, you make it seem as if it is humanity that is sovereign and almighty while God is just too weak and incompetent to cause all humanity to repent. I guess that is just too hard for God (Jeremiah 32:27). A person cannot do anything for God unless God first begins a work in that person and continues to work in that person to bring forth His will in their life. Who is it that you think despises Christ? Christians are the only group of people that I know of that not only disapprove of Jesus Christ being the Savior of the World, they absolutely despise it. And don’t give me that hogwash about God is offering salvation to the whole world but all must choose and accept Christ in order to be saved nonsense. That is Christian HERESY at its finest… God works ALL THINGS after the counsel of His own will and God is not subject to the wills of men. Instead of thinking that God’s salvation is something we must to earn or deserve with human works, think of it as the conclusion of God’s will for humanity from being made in His image.

      1 Timothy 2:3-4 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; WHO WILL HAVE ALL MEN TO BE SAVED, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

      God WILLS for ALL MEN (all humanity) to be saved and it is blasphemous heresy to even suggest that God cannot or will not get what He wills. I have heard some try to rob God of His glory by suggesting that God only desires for all men to be saved but God’s desire is nothing more than a weak wish. What nonsense… What force is there that exists that is so powerful that it would prevent God from having all of His desires and pleasures from being fulfilled? There is only one force in the whole cosmos that men believe they have which essentially makes them more sovereign than God and that force is called, “free will”. Free will is the man-made invention of sovereignty. Man thinks and wants to be his own god and this is how man thinks he has accomplished it but “free will” is an illusion. People have wills but human will is subject to many causal influences. God will do ALL of His pleasure…

      Isaiah 46:10-11 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, MY COUNSEL SHALL STAND, AND I WILL DO ALL MY “PLEASURE”: Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I HAVE SPOKEN IT, I WILL ALSO BRING IT TO PASS; I HAVE PURPOSED IT, I WILL ALSO DO IT.

      20) “Why are you using the term ‘kingdom of heaven’ if you say it doesn’t exist?”

      Where have I stated that the “kingdom of heaven” doesn’t exist? You need to pay closer attention to what I say if you are going to be critical. Let me repeat what I said…

      God’s kingdom of heaven is not a real physical place in the sky; it is an invisible spiritual realm in which one is being transformed into the image of Christ. In Luke 17:21, Christ says that the kingdom of God (heaven) is WITHIN YOU… Let me elaborate;

      The saints of God are the real temples of God in which God dwells in us and not in church buildings made by men. When God resides in us and we are living out God’s perfect will in our lives, that is the manifestation of the kingdom of heaven now but we do not yet appear what we shall be. We only experience just a fraction of the kingdom of heaven in this life because we only have God’s spirit in earnest (small down payment). The promise will be realized in the resurrection to life when the saints of God are raised in spiritual immortal bodies in the spiritual kingdom of God to reign with Christ for the ages.

      20) “What do you suppose the weeping and gnashing of teeth means?”

      Well, before I suppose anything, I must defer to what the scriptures state concerning this matter. The phrase “weeping and gnashing of teeth” is found 7 times in the New Testament of the KJV and it is first found in the book of Matthew.

      Matthew 8:12 But the CHILDREN OF THE KINGDOM shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

      Christianity thinks that it will be the lost, wicked, and unrepentant sinners that rejected Christ who will be doing the weeping and gnashing their teeth in a place called hell but according to this scripture, we are told that it is the “children of the kingdom” that will be cast out into outer darkness where they will be weeping and gnashing their teeth. So who are the children of the kingdom? In Matthew 8:11, Christ says that many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven. Who are the many that come from the east and the west? Jesus is giving a contrast between TWO groups of people – the Jews and the Gentiles. The Gentiles are the many that come from the east and the west to sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven but this is not literal because Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are dead and presently in the grave awaiting the resurrection. Sitting down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven is symbolic. The Jews were very proud of their religious heritage and tradition so when Christ told them that other people would be sitting with their forefathers in God’s kingdom, they were insulted. Then to further suggest that they would be cast out in outer darkness was just more fuel to the fire. The Jews “hated” Jesus Christ and that is why that delivered him up to be killed. The point of the message is that God is now opening the door for the Gentiles to have communion with God. In the judgment at the end of the world, many Jews and Christians along with the rest of the world will rise in the resurrection to judgment. The lost and the wicked will be judged according to their works but I suspect that judgment will not be as bad for them as it will be for the religious self-righteous. Imagine the Jew or Christian having lived their whole life following and worshiping their own religion only to rise in the resurrection having realized at that time that they have missed out on reigning with Christ. They will come under the realization that they were deceived by Satan (cast out into outer darkness) and the natural response for many will be crying and/or grinding their teeth in anger.

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  14. I hear what you are saying and it makes sense but its little things that concern me that make me wonder about the validity of the entire right up… for example: the cross in your picture is not historically accurate. The son of Yah was not sacrificed on a cross…so why would you use that symbol to represent anything related to his word?

    I need to do a bit more research and seek him. But the article was insightful and does have me thinking a bit more.. I’m just wondering was the punishment for disobeying his laws are if its just a purification of the bad things at the end? I know when we die, we sleep, so we don’t remember anything and its just darkness, but when he wakes us up to judge us he then will purify us all? and then purify Lucifer for ever and ever???? maybe I am misunderstanding.

    I feel like its more complex than this…

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    1. The purpose of this site is to help Christians understand the lie of hell and hear to real good news about God’s plan of salvation for the whole world. The “cross” is universally accepted in Christianity as a symbol for Christianity. My target audience is Christians so naturally I would use a icon that Christians would recognize. With that said, I think you might be maybe a bit too critical on things that aren’t that significant. To question the validity of my entire paper based solely on my choice of a WordPress logo is kinda petty in my opinion. I am well aware that there are scriptures that describe Christ as being hanged on a “tree” as a opposed to the more accepted depiction of a cross but the more pertinent matter is what Christ’s death accomplished for humanity and less about the manner of his death. What I have learned is that you simply cannot please everyone… One will be critical about one thing while another is critical about something else, so I stand firm on my convictions while being completely content with people disagreeing with me and believing whatever they want to believe. I’m glad that you found my article insightful and it is good thing to start asking yourself questions. A major problem within Christendom is that believers do not questions or confirm any of the doctrines they believe. They hear it preached and they just believe it. I encourage you to study more because I certainly do not have all of the answers but I will answer the questions you have asked;

      Just for the record, there is not one single person that can obey God’s laws without God first causing that person to do so. God has already told us what the punishment is for breaking his law and that punishment is death. A better question would be, how does God transform a sinner into the image of His son. Well that is certainly a more difficult question to answer but going through judgement and being purified of sin is not something that I would consider to be a simple task. The phrase for ever and ever is not accurate according to the original Greek. If “for ever” means a period of time with no end, what does “and ever” mean? That phrase is accurately defined as “ages of the ages” meaning that God’s judgment of sinners will take as long as is necessary to eradicate sin from every single sinner that has ever lived. Now there are all kinds of sins and many of these sins our carnal selves do not want to let go of. The scriptures describe this process of dying to sin or losing one’s self as suffering loss so I don’t think judgment and the process of being purified is going to be an instant “abracadabra” moment after the resurrection for most people. Remember, that God’s people are being judged now during this life so that they will not have to go through the judgment of the world in the resurrection. It is certainly more complex than you have suggested but I think you are on the right track.

      P.S. Lucifer is not Satan… the word “lucifer” is actually a Latin ADJECTIVE and it means day or morning star. The KJV translators changed this adjective and turned it into a proper noun so that they could insert the totally bogus story of Lucifer wanting to be like God and being cast out of heaven so that they could justify an even bigger lie. That lie would be that humans possess this ability called “free will” the same supposed “free will” that “Lucifer” exercised when he decided that he wanted to be a devil rather than an angel. It is total nonsense… Satan has always been a liar and a murderer from the BEGINNING…

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  15. Indeed life is stranger than fiction, here I thought jesus was literally going to come from the clouds and kill me and then toss me into the sun. but hey, I know somethings but not everything.

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  16. does this mean i have no choice in any of all this, i have to go along with it it? because i said in my hear that god will judge me and put me to death. i shoulda listened, but hey everything happens for a reason. I’m a blind person who learned too much too fast, without the desire to act, from my perspective. but i am always hard on myself. I

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    1. You have a choice but just understand that your choices are dependent on influence. That’s why you have emotions and a brain to process and regulate the information it receives. You get information from everywhere and everything and based on that information, you make choices. God is the great causer of all things so ultimately what God wills to happen will happen. God is the master clay potter and He makes pretty pots and ugly pots. If God made you to be an ugly pot, could you choose not to be an ugly pot?

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  17. Interesting article. Hell indeed is not an eternal place of torture. However, the Messiah only died for the children of Israel.

    John 11:52
    And not for that nation only (Kingdom of Judah), but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad. (Ephraim)

    Ezekiel prophesied about this regathering.

    Ezekiel 37:22
    And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all.

    James knew this very well

    James 1:1
    James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the TWELVE TRIBES which are scattered abroad, greeting.

    So did Peter.

    1 Peter 1:1-2
    Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

    The Messiah is the saviour of Israel only and that is repeated many times throughout the Bible. He comes to save Israel from the hands of all who hate them.

    The Book of Corinthians was written to Israelites in Corinth. 1 Cor 5:1, 1 Cor 10:1 and 1 Cor 12:2 highlights this very well. Israel will judge the world; not a mixed multitude of christians.

    The other nations will be servants to Israel.

    Matthew 24:9
    Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations (ethnos ie races of people) for my name’s sake.

    Israel bears the name of the Most High.

    1 Timothy 4:10 is basically another way to write John 3:16 which does not represent the whole world.

    Isaiah 45:17 and John 18:20 both reveal the world that the Messiah is speaking about.

    The Father is Father only to Israel

    Matthew 6:31-32, Matthew 6:7-8 and Luke 12:29-30 all juxtapose the children of the Father to the nations, heathen and Gentiles ie ethnos which are the other nations/races of people on the earth

    Ephesians 4:17 tells Israel not to walk as the other nations walk.

    The inheritance is for Israel. Other nations can get blessings but will be in servitude to Israel.

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    1. How quaint, typical self righteous Jewish nonsense. An Israelite thinks that only Israelites will live forever in the “world to come” while everyone else who has died will cease to exist like the animals and every country in the world will be Israel’s slaves. Bravo, unsuccessfully trying to use the N. T. against followers of Christ. Like the sites author, I’m not going to justify your vitriol with an educated verse filled response.

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  18. It appears that Roger’s knowledge of the entire Bible is limited. He needs to read Romans 11, especially verse 17 about the Gentiles being grafted into Israel.

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  19. So you deny free will, advocate that choices don’t truly matter because god is in complete control and will eventually save all people whether they want him or not?

    Ironically, none of what you claim in regards to what I said it biblical. It’s the new age universalism.

    I can and do agree with the symbolic non physical torment description of the lake of fire, but I caution you to not spiritualize things when the word spiritualize is used in an esoteric manner.

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    1. Free will is NOT biblical and I cannot deny something that I don’t even believe is real… I don’t deny Peter Pan because I know Peter Pan is a fictional character. Free will is a man-made lie invented to make man sovereign over God so I don’t have to deny it because its totally bogus. Do children have free will or are they subjected to do the wills of their parents?

      Let’s read John 6:44;

      Any one can come to Christ regardless of whether the Father draws them or not just as long as they exercise their free will to choose whatever they want to choose… Is that what the scripture says? NO… this is what it says;

      No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.

      Where is “free will” in that scripture? So before any person can actually come to Christ, God (who you think is not in control) has to draw them first… God has to cause the necessary things to influence a person to choose Christ. Sorry but there is no such thing as free will. It is a lie, an illusion to make you think you are your own god…

      I have NEVER stated that choices don’t truly matter… If I kill someone I will go to jail for a long time. If I fail to show for work for a few days I will be fired. If I neglect my children they will be taken away from me. What are you talking about? There are numerous choices that impact our daily lives but God’s will to save all has little to do with the consequences of making choices in our earthly life. God is in complete control and if you don’t think that, then shame on you. You make it seem as if God is not capable of causing ALL of His creation to fall in love with Him under the right circumstances… If God is truly all-knowing and all-powerful, what can stop Him? Man’s silly free will? Give me a break… God is not drawing all of mankind to Christ in this life but there will be a future age of judgment when God will judge the world in righteousness. What do you think happens when God judges the world in righteousness? Eternal torture? eternal destruction? NO… judging in righteousness produces RIGHTEOUSNESS!

      Isaiah 26:9 With my soul I have desired You in the night, Yes, by my spirit within me I will seek You early; For when Your “judgments” are in the earth, THE INHABITANTS OF THE WORLD WILL LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS.

      Who is left out of the inhabitants of the world? You speak as if people can’t change or that there will be a time when people will no longer have the ability to change even after judgment. There are people on death row that have repented in their hearts. They can’t take back their action but they changed in their heart and they learned that their action wasn’t right.

      You caution me not to spiritualize things when essentially everything Christ did was spiritual…

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    1. We have to be careful sometimes when we use words because certain words carry abstract meanings. The word “punishment” can mean a few different things but the word translated as punishment in the bible has a much different meaning than what most people think of. The bible definition for punishment has more to do with correction and even though correction can oftentimes be painful and uncomfortable, the primary purpose of punishment is not to necessarily cause pain but rather to produce a change or different outcome. God using “fire” to destroy the people of Sodom and Gomorrah was all but a symbol of how God will destroy the works of the flesh. God will totally eradicate the carnal man in all of us! This is the change/different outcome that God has in store for humanity. The people of Sodom and Gomorrah are not suffering eternal torture in real fire because God is not a terrorist. In fact, those people will be returned to their former state (that is, the former state of being alive) when they rise in the resurrection to judgment to be judged in righteousness…

      Ezekiel 16:55 When your sisters, Sodom and her daughters, return to their former state, and Samaria and her daughters return to their former state, then you and your daughters will return to your former state.

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      1. Thank you for your response! Also the devil and his angels are not physical beings so they cannot feel physical pain right? And in matt 25 it says into the lake of fire prepared for the devil and his angels. Does this indicate aswell that the lake of fire is not literal and physical?

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      2. The devil is certainly not a physical being but the “angels” of the devil are in fact human. The word “angel” from the Greek simply means a messenger. When we think of “angels” we automatically think of heavenly spiritual beings but that is not always the case. John the Baptist was an “angel”, not a heavenly being but simply a messenger. The pastors of Christianity are the devil’s messengers. Be careful not to mix words and phrases for Matthew 25 talks about “eternal fire” not the lake of fire. It could be deduced that they are the same thing which I believe they are, I wouldn’t just state it as matter of fact so as to not confuse people. The “eternal fire” of Matthew 25:41 is not eternal at all for the Greek word “aionios” that most bibles translate as eternal actually means age-abiding. This fire is “SPIRITUAL” and it has a spiritual purpose. There is little that real physical fire would do to a person except cause pain. There is no redeeming or purposeful value to be gained by casting people in literal fire. This spiritual fire is God’s consuming spirit for when humanity is subjected to God’s consuming spirit, all that is not of the spirit will be destroyed. The bible talks about dying to the carnal self and suffering loss. It is very painful to lose the things of the flesh that we lust for but God is righteous and merciful. Human suffering is temporary but just as gold is refined when it goes through literal fire, humanity will be refined and made into the image of Christ, the spiritual man, when we pass through the spiritual fire of God’s sin-purging judgment.

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  20. you know most of us read the Bible and when we encounter verses that are difficult to understand, because of our pre-set minds we tend to ignore them. How we also love our God when we read with understanding the things he has already revealed in His Word. Thank you Sulaiman for your work.

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