65 thoughts on “The Sinner’s Prayer is a Joke”

1. Sulaiman,

   Again, you have hit this topic perfectly. You see, when I was 14 years old, I was “saved” in the fashion described in this article. But, in reality, my salvation was a false one because I was really seeking to escape the judgment of a literal hell fire and damnation. When one enters such a salvation, it is inevitable that he will spend his life seeking to be his own savior through good works, being worthy, etc, etc. If we use the parable of the Prodigal Son, those entering a false salvation typically are committing the sin of the older brother, which is even more errant than the sin of the younger brother.

   I spent 44 years of my life lost is the darkness of modern Christian salvation. It wasn’t until last December, at the age of 58, that God removed the scales of darkness from my eyes and I was finally called unto the true salvation. And that was only after having given up, reaching the depths of spiritual despair. I no longer sought Him, but He reached out and found me. It is at that point that God can actually lift you up because you can finally recognize that, for all your efforts, there is nothing you can do to be worthy or merit salvation. Salvation is not gained by you seeking Him, but by Him knocking on the door of your heart and only then can you open up. I had spent decades trying to find the “true path” when, all along, the only true path – the Way – had stood before me, but I was too blind to see it. You can spend your whole life, thinking that you are a Christian and are “born again”, but we cannot call ourselves unto salvation and no salvation is true that is born out of fear.

   When I was not truly called of God, the scriptures and their meaning were like a sealed book, and it was so easy to get tossed about by every self-appointed teacher out there. But, when God calls you and opens your eyes, the meaning of the scriptures unfold like a flood of enlightenment. Merely pose the questions in your mind, and God teaches you. As part of this teaching, you remember scriptures you hadn’t thought of, or read, in decades. One can spend a lifetime arguing points of doctrine, exegetical methods, proper parsing of Koine Greek, trying to discern the truth. Or, one can transcend this and be taught directly by the Holy Spirit. If we are spending our lives doing the former, I would be concerned about my approach for the Spirit of God is not one of contention – something that arises out of a confused, unenlightened mind. “Christians” spend way too much time dividing ourselves over points of doctrine and nitpicking. Most troublesome to me is the spirit of exclusion wherein we try to cast one another into this fictional hell because we disagree on points of doctrine. One might say that this site does the same thing, but I would argue to the contrary because this site destroys everything we thought we needed to wrongfully fear.

   To the point of the “born again” prayer, I agree wholeheartedly with you. It was a relief to read these words from you, a kindred brother in the gospel. You see, when God opened my eyes this past December 26th, I did not ask God to forgive me because, when your eyes are opened to your unholy state and what Jesus has done for you, a “God, forgive me for my sins” just seems so woefully and painfully inadequate, a checkbox some feel the need to check in order to say they performed the correct steps to be saved. In fact, words cannot express the moment. For me, the so-called prayer of salvation was an overwhelming feeling, unexpressed by words, acknowledging my unworthy, sinful state and an eternal gratitude for what God had done for me. It was a transformation of being – a transformation wherein one’s behavior automatically includes repentance, a change in course and turning from sin. When God calls you to salvation by opening your eyes, you will not ask, “What must I do to be saved?” because you will know it has already been done for you and all you have to do is accept and give thanks by living a holy life.

   May God bless your efforts to teach the real gospel of Jesus Christ.

   Ron Grimes

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   1. what about the survivors from the war of Armageddon??will they not be ushered into the millennium ?

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      1. There is no such thing as a “literal” war called Armageddon. God’s people are fighting a “spiritual war”…

         Ephesians 6:12 For our “BATTLE” is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the world powers of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavens.

         Armageddon is a “spiritual” place…

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2. John 3:16

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   1. Okay? Is there a reason why you quoted that verse?

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3. Do you believe it?

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4. I didn’t quote the verse, I wrote down the verse.

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   1. I asked you to quote me where I state that people can be saved without believing in Christ. I say NO such thing in any of my writings.

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5. No, you did not ask me me to quote you where you state that people can be saved without believing in “Christ”. You asked me “why” I quoted the verse. Stop putting words in my mouth, like the lies you teach from the Scriptures.

   But here you go, from another page from your website you quote the following.

   In the world of Christianity, Jesus Christ is their savior but Christians have added a prerequisite for God’s salvation that requires a person to believe and accept Christ as their savior and this action MUST take place before a person dies. If a person doesn’t believe in their Christ or if they reject their Christ, this person will be cast into some evil pagan god forsaken torture chamber to be burned alive for all eternity. This belief is not only disgusting, it is rank blasphemy. Here is what the word of God reveals to us;

   1 John 2:2 And he [Jesus Christ] is the PROPITIATION for our sins: and NOT FOR OURS ONLY, BUT ALSO FOR THE SINS OF THE WHOLE WORLD.

   The word “propitiation” is only used in the New Testament twice and it is translated from the Greek word “hilasmos”. According to Strong Greek Concordance, “hilasmos” is defined as atonement or to appease. We just read in 1 John 2:2 that Jesus Christ is the propitiation or atonement of our (believers) sins but we are also told that this atonement did NOT only apply to believers. Jesus Christ is also the propitiation for the sins of the world. Now remember that the wages of sin is death (not hell) and Christ is the propitiation for sin; so this implies that everyone will be given life.

   The problem is, the World as you say, REJECTS CHRIST! THEY DO NOT BELIEVE! This is why a left the Scripture Book, chapter and verse John 3:16 to prove your false teachings. How anyone could take away anything other than. EVERYONE is saved, even those who never believed would be beyond me.

   I can give you one hundred verses from Scripture that says belief. And YES, we can absolutely KNOW and REJOICE, “TODAY” ETERNAL SALVATION. Or have you not READ, NOW IS THE TIME, TODAY IS THE DAY OF SALVATION. [ 2 Corinthians 6:2 ] You think your preserving will SAVE YOU? YOUR WORKS? WORKS = REWARDS. SALVATION = GIFT. You can’t earn Salvation with your personal performance. That’s why you can’t understand and call out “contradiction” because it doesn’t fit YOUR GOSPEL, YOU wrest Ephesians 2:8-9.

   Work out you own Salvation. Means to USE IT! Don’t just sit on it. Even in fear, put it to use. Like Paul, who worked out his own Salvation, weakness and in fear and in much trembling.. [1 Corinthians 2:3] [Philippians 2:12]

   This verse should destroy another one of your comments that “we do not have free will” Oh REALLY?

   Deuteronomy 30:19 This day I call the heaven and the earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, that you may CHOOSE life, that both thou and they seed may live:

   Now you can erase my comment again. I won’t be returning to read your LIES AND WRESTING OF MY FATHERS SCRIPTURES. REPENT (change your mind) There is only ONE TRUTH, ONE GOSPEL, and you ain’t teaching it. ANATHEMA!!

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   1. I’m not putting words in your mouth and I’m not going to play this little tit for tat childish game with you. I will not delete your last comment but your last comment will be the last comment I accept from you. I will end this right here right now and any future comments from you will be DELETED.
      You left me a comment with John 3:16 with NO reasoning behind it so I asked you why did you quote that verse. Whether you want to call it quote or wrote, it doesn’t matter. Your intent was to use John 3:16 as a rebuttal of something I wrote in my writings. Then you responded and I quote you saying, “What do you do with John 3:16, if you say that a person does not have to believe in Christ to be saved”. I responded to this by telling you that I’ve never stated that a person does not have to believe in Christ in order to be saved. Then I asked you to QUOTE me where I say such a thing since you were under the impression that I said it. So after all of that nonsense of you going back and forth over nothing, you finally present what you think is me saying that a person doesn’t have to believe in Christ to be saved. Here is the insert that you QUOTED;
      [In the world of Christianity, Jesus Christ is their savior but Christians have added a prerequisite for God’s salvation that requires a person to believe and accept Christ as their savior and this action MUST take place before a person dies. If a person doesn’t believe in their Christ or if they reject their Christ, this person will be cast into some evil pagan god forsaken torture chamber to be burned alive for all eternity. This belief is not only disgusting, it is rank blasphemy. Here is what the word of God reveals to us;
      1 John 2:2 And he [Jesus Christ] is the PROPITIATION for our sins: and NOT FOR OURS ONLY, BUT ALSO FOR THE SINS OF THE WHOLE WORLD.
      The word “propitiation” is only used in the New Testament twice and it is translated from the Greek word “hilasmos”. According to Strong Greek Concordance, “hilasmos” is defined as atonement or to appease. We just read in 1 John 2:2 that Jesus Christ is the propitiation or atonement of our (believers) sins but we are also told that this atonement did NOT only apply to believers. Jesus Christ is also the propitiation for the sins of the world. Now remember that the wages of sin is death (not hell) and Christ is the propitiation for sin; so this implies that everyone will be given life.]
      If you can read, notice that I state that Christians have added a PRERQUISITE for God’s salvation which requires a person to believe and accept Christ BEFORE THEY DIE. You criticize me for only part of what I said but that is your foolish mistake. If you had better reading and/or comprehension skills, this is a mistake that you might not have made. But you were so quick to try and call me out but you should’ve just taken my original advice to read through my material and meditate on the scriptures. I guess there’s no need for you to study to show yourself approved since you have many idols of false religion to worship. Like I said before, God’s salvation is not limited or determined by the standards of man’s wisdom and your foolish religion. You do not have a clue about God’s judgment that will take place when this world comes to an end.
      Yes of course the world rejects Christ and this includes YOU.
      Romans 11:32 For God hath concluded them ALL IN UNBELIEF, that he might have mercy upon all.
      You act like you just woke up one day and said to yourself, I think today I want to start serving the Lord. You are quite foolish. Something compelled you to believe and if you are a Christian, this most certainly would include being convicted of sin, asked to say the sinner’s prayer, and then threatened with an eternal hell if you rejected it. This is NOT the gospel. This is the counterfeit gospel of Christianity. The bible is clear that God is only saving a select FEW in this life; contrary to the 2.5 billion professing Christians all over the world. Since you are caught up with the world’s rejection of Christ, you don’t even realize that you fall into this same category. You do NOT believe that Jesus Christ is the Savior of the world. You do NOT believe that GOD’S WILL to have ALL MEN to be saved will come to pass. You do NOT believe that Christ’s sacrifice on the cross was a sufficient atonement for the sins of the world even though that is what we are told in 1 John 2:2. You believe that Jesus Christ will ultimately FAIL at saving the world and because of his failure; your evil pagan god will supposedly cast billions of people in an eternal hell. You Christians are beyond foolish and ignorant in your own conceits. John 3:16 does NOT have ANYTHING to do with God’s final act of redemption that will take place in the resurrection to judgment in which God will obliterate death and the grave as well as our sinful carnality.
      Today is NOT the only day of salvation. Today will come to an end and tomorrow will be a new day in which that day will also be a day of salvation. What preserving have I done? What works is it that I do that makes me think I have earned God’s salvation? I do NOT perform “many wonderful works” at any church of religion. God’s church is spiritual and it doesn’t take place in buildings made by men. I have in NO way indicated that I must WORK to earn salvation but you have. I think it’s comical that you QUOTED Ephesians 2:8 not even realizing that you have made yourself look like a fool.
      Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
      We are saved by grace through FAITH which is a GIFT from GOD. Faith is believing and God’s give us the ability to believe which is a GIFT so why are you taking credit for God’s work?
      John 6:44 NO MAN CAN COME TO ME, EXCEPT THE FATHER WHICH HATH SENT ME DRAW HIM: and I will raise him up at the last day.
      God gives us grace to believe and then he draws us to Christ. You don’t just come to Christ…
      Romans 2:4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that THE GOODNESS OF GOD LEADETH THEE TO REPENTANCE?
      All is of God and I know it makes you feel good to take credit for God’s work but you are not God. You might want to be your own god but that is your personal problem.
      Now since you have accused me of saying that I must work to earn salvation, why is that only a few sentences later, you foolishly QUOTE only PART of Philippians 2:12 in which it says to WORK out your own salvation. Which one is it? Do you even know what you’re saying? You speak as fool. This has nothing to do with being scared of God like a little child that is afraid of monsters in the closet. You carnal minded Christians need to stop reading the bible because you have NO clue how to discern spiritual truth. Let me QUOTE the WHOLE verse since you like picking out half scriptures to support your twisted carnal minded understandin.
      Philippians 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
      It is clear that Paul is telling the believers of Philippi that he will no longer be in their PRESENCE so he admonished them to work out their own salvation. They were use to Paul’s headship of the church but Paul tells them that he will be absent more often. There is a reason why we work out our own salvation and do you know why? Of course you don’t because you like to think that you are your own god and in control of your decisions with your human invention of sovereignty (free will). Here is why we work out our own salvation with fear and trembling;
      Philippians 2:13 For IT IS GOD WHICH WORKETH IN YOU BOTH TO WILL AND TO DO OF HIS GOOD PLEASURE.
      Fear and trembling does NOT mean what you think it means or do you think God was telling a lie when he said this?
      1 John 4:18 THERE IS NO FEAR IN LOVE; but perfect love casteth out fear: because FEAR HATH TORMENT. HE THAT FEARETH IS NOT MADE PERFECT IN LOVE.
      Young children FEAR their parents but not because they are scared that their parents are going to beat them to death or lock them in the basement with no food. They fear their parents because they understand that they can’t do anything without their parents. The terror of the Lord is no different but you think God is love but at the same time, he wants us to work out our salvation in carnal human fear? You are BEYOND foolish.
      And to your last comment about free will, once again, you have spoken very ignorantly. Humans make hundreds upon hundreds of CHOICES every day but our CHOICES are NOT free from INFLUENCE. Tell me why NO man in the history of mankind used their free will to stop sinning? That is the whole purpose for Christ’s life and sacrifice, to do what we couldn’t. Free will is the human invention of sovereignty. This is the only force in the whole world that makes a man think that he is in complete control over his own life in spite of God’s will and power. The will of a man will NEVER trump the sovereign will of GOD. I’ve quoted several verses that prove that ALL is of God and it is God willing and working in us TO DO of his good pleasure.
      Now, I know you despise the word of God and you absolutely disapprove of God’s will to save ALL MEN. You hate the idea of God saving everyone and it brings you much satisfaction to imagine all of those Christ rejecters to be barbecued alive in your beloved torture chamber. Like I said earlier, I will not erase your comment but do not leave any more comments or they will be erased. If you choose not to return to my site, I will not lose one second of sleep. My life will continue as normal. Much of what you said in your comment is pure garbage but the little truth you did speak is that there is only one truth and one gospel but you reject it and you hate it. May God open your deceived and blind eyes to the glorious truth of His word. Even though you have pronounced a curse on me, I speak blessings for you and your family.

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6. Repentance has been interpreted by some people as recognition that Jesus is the Lord instead of praying a prayer that acknowledges our sinfulness and to ask God for forgiveness of their sin. Discuss.

   In order to comprehend the word, repentance, let’s meditate 1 John 2:4, “(that mentions that) He that saith, I know him, and keepeth his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. (KJV)” As the phrase, keepeth his commandments, is mentioned in 1 John 2:3 with the phrase, the truth is not in him, it gives a significant truth that a person, who simply proclaims with his mouth to believe in Jesus and yet does not keep God’s commandment, would not have the truth in him. As the truth is not in him at the absence of God’s commandment in him, do you think he could be saved since 1 John 2:4, “(even calls him to be) …a liar…”?

   The same is mentioned in 1 John 2:3, “And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.” As the phrase, we know him, is mentioned in 1 John 2:3 with the phrase, if we keep his commandments, it implies that we could only be able to proclaim to know God if we keep God’s commandment. Or in other words, we could not mention we could know God if we refuse to keep God’s commandment. Thus, it raises a query whether a person could proclaim to know God if he proclaims to believe in Jesus and yet insists not to keep God’s commandment since 1 John 2:3, “(comments that he could only declare himself to) know him, if (he) keep(s) his commandment.”. As he could not proclaim himself to know God due to he insists not to keep God’s commandment, could he be saved then?

   When Jesus was confronted by a person who requested him Matthew 19:16, “…what…shall I do, that I may have eternal life? (KJV)”, His immediate response towards the way to eternal life was Matthew 19:17, “…if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.” The commandments that Matthew 19:18, “Jesus said, (are) Thou shalt do no murder, thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not hear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.” For instance, if the way to eternal life is simply to Matthew 19:21, “…come and follow (Jesus and to believe in Him without the repentance of sin)”, why should Jesus mention in Matthew 19:17, “(that his ambition to) enter into life (could only be met by) keep(ing) the commandments.”? Thus, it raises a query whether a person could be saved if he proclaims to believe in Jesus and yet insists not to keep God’s commandment.

   James 2:10-12 relate keeping God’s commandment to obeying them. James 2:10-12, “For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.”

   1 John 1:6, “If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth.” As the phrase, walk in darkness, is mentioned in 1 John 1:6 with the phrase, If we say that we have fellowship with him…we lie, it implies that we must not walk in darkness in order that we could comment ourselves to have fellowship with Jesus. As we could not proclaim to have fellowship with Jesus as a result of our insisting in disobeying God’s commandment, could our faith save us? 1 John 1:6, “(even mentions that we) do not the truth” when we insist to walk in darkness.

   The word, Repentance, has been mentioned in Acts 8:22 to interlink with getting away from our wickedness instead of simply our recognition towards Jesus as Lord. The following is the extract: Acts 8:22, “Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.” The same is mentioned in 2 Corinthians 12:21, “(that) …many which have sinned already, and have not repented of the uncleanness and fornication and lasciviousness which they have committed (KJV).”

   The word, repent, is placed on the first word, in Acts 2:38 prior to phrase, ye shall receive the…Holy Spirit, to stress repentance is needed prior to the receipt of the Holy Spirit. The following are the extracts: Acts 2:38-39, “Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.”

   John 12:46, “I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.” As the phrase, whosoever believeth on me, is mentioned in John 12:46 with the phrase, should not abide in darkness, it implies that a person who proclaims to have a genuine faith in Jesus is the one who does not abide in darkness. Or in other words, a genuine believer is the one who repents from sin and does not walk in darkness. It certainly rejects those people who simply proclaim to believe in Jesus and yet continue in abiding in darkness. Thus, faith and repentance from sin should not be separable. For James 2:17, “(mentions that) Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.”

   Salvation is meant for those people who obey Jesus instead of those who simply proclaim to believe in Jesus and yet work contrarily against His commandment as mentioned in Hebrews 5:5, “(that)…Christ… (KJV)” Hebrews 5:9, “…being made perfect, he came the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;” The same is mentioned in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-8, “(that) …when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his might angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power:”

   The word, love, in the scripture has been used to relate to keeping of God’s commandments. The following are the extracts: John 14:15, “If ye love me, keep my commandments.”; 1 John 5:3-4, “By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.”; Romans 13:9, “For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.”

   Our God is not a God that could tolerate sin. The scripture even mentions that His anger is upon people who commit sin and He would hide from them for their sin as mentioned below: Deuteronomy 31:17-18, “Then my anger shall be kindled against them in that day, and I will forsake them, and I will hide my face from them, and they shall be devoured, and many evils and troubles shall befall them; so that they will say in that day, Are not these evils come upon us, because our God is not among us? And I will surely hide my face in that day for all the evils which they shall have wrought, in that they are turned unto other gods.” As God will hide His face from people if they continue in sinning, do you think He would hide His face from them who pray sinner’s prayer and yet continue in sinning without repentant heart? Do you think God would hide from those people who proclaim to believe in Jesus and yet continue in sinning? As God would hide from them, do you think they could be saved?

   From the above verses, it could come to the conclusion that a person who proclaims himself to believe in Jesus must not walk in darkness in order that he could proclaim himself to have fellowship with Him. Thus, it is a must for him to repent from his evil way in order that the truth could be with him (1 John 2:4). That is the reason why repentance of sin has to be proceeded prior to praying sinner’s prayer. As repentance of sin is a must in order to be saved, it has placed a query whether Catholics, who use rosaries to pray to Jesus and to stand around Mary’s statues to pray and to draw invisible crosses from foreheads to chests and from shoulders to shoulders, could be saved. This is by virtue to they have violated Exodus 20:4-5, “(that mention that) Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image (forming a invisible cross from head to the chest and from shoulder to shoulder) …Thou shalt not serve them” Even if they would have prayed sinner’s prayer and have acknowledged Jesus’ resurrection and have believed salvation is by God’s grace through faith, their salvation is in query since they continue in their daily sin without repentant heart.

   Does it mean that there must be some outward evidence of turning away of sin in order to consider a person to have genuine repentance of sin? No, it is not true since the scripture mentions that God sees the heart. As long as the heart has the desire to repent from sin, it is to be considered as repentance of sin. The following are the extracts: Psalms 7:10, “My defence is of God, which saveth the upright in heart.”; Psalms 44:21, “Shall not God search this out? For he knoweth the secrets of the heart.”; Proverbs 21:2, “Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts.”; Proverbs 11:20, “They that are a froward heart are abomination to the LORD: but such as are upright way are his delight.”; Psalms 66:18, “If I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear me: (Do you think God will hear a person’s sinner prayer if he has the mind to continue in sinning? How about he has his mind to be set at repenting from his sin. To him, God will hear his prayer since his heart has been set right before God since he does not regard iniquity in his heart.)”

   Faith is directed from a person’s heart towards God as mentioned in Psalms 62:8, “Trust in him; ye people, pour out your heart before him: God is a refuge for us. Selah.”; Psalms 95:10, “Forty years long was I grieved with this generation, and said, It is a people that do err in their heart, and they have not known my ways:”; Matthew 13:15, “For this people’s heart is waxed gross, and their ears are full of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.”

   Could a non-Christian be saved if he refuses to confess that he is a sinner? 1 John 1:10, “If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.” As the phrase, If we say that we have not sinned, is mentioned in 1 John 1:10 with the phrase, his word is not in us, it implies that God’s word is not in a person if he refuses to admit that he is a sinner. As God’s word is not in him if he insists not to admit that he does sin before God, how could he be saved then at the absence of God’s word to be in him? Thus, it would place a query whether he could be saved if he proclaims himself to believe in Jesus and yet insists that he is perfect before God without sin since 1 John 1:10 mentions that the word is not in him at the absence of his acknowledgement of his sin. Praying a sinner prayer provides a way out for a non-Christian to confess his sin before God to seek His forgiveness upon him. The reason is simply that he needs God’s cleansing of his past sin in order that he could be perfected. For 1 John 1:9, “(mentions that) If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.”

   A person’s faith in Jesus and repentance of sin and even water baptism could not cause him to be saved since salvation is only activated through the indwelling of Spirit of Christ in him. Or in other words, if he proclaims to believe in Jesus and has obeyed all the commandments of God and even to receive water baptism, he still does not belong to God if he does not have the Spirit of Christ to be with him. For Romans 8:9, “(mentions that) …Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.”

   Belief in Jesus might not be accompanied with the receipt of the Holy Spirit since Acts 19:2, “(mentions that) …Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard there be any Holy Ghost.” For instance, if belief in Jesus would automatically cause the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, it does not matter whether they know the Holy Ghost since it would come to them automatically. However, a query about the uncertainty of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is placed upon believers as mentioned in Acts 19:2 since the phrase, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed, is mentioned. Believers must not presume themselves to have the Holy Spirit. Or else, they might be turned up to be rejected in the last days when they meet Jesus since Matthew 7:22-23, “(mention that) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? And in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.” These people who call Jesus as Lord should have faith in Jesus and yet they will be rejected in the last day. The only reason that could explain why Jesus would comment to them that He does not know them is they are not God’s people since there is no indwelling of the Holy Spirit in them. The same is mentioned in Romans 8:9, “(that)…if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.” Praying sinner’s prayer provides a way out for a non-Christian since it directs him to ask Jesus to receive Him to be his personal saviour so as to secure himself with salvation since a person who proclaims to believe in Jesus might not be accompanied with the receipt of the Holy Ghost as mentioned in Acts 19:2. Nobody in this world could proclaim he has the right for the receipt of the Holy Spirit since he is a sinner. It is by God’s grace that He has given him the Holy Spirit when he prays sinner’s prayer. Salvation is not of the work of faith or repentance of sin or the full obedience of laws that anyone could boast but the result of the free gift of God by the indwelling of the Spirit of Christ to be in him to cause him to be saved. Thus, salvation is purely the work of God’s grace.

   A person who says sinner’s prayer to pray for the receipt of the Holy Spirit must believe he has received it after prayer. Or else, his prayer would be in vain since the Holy Spirit would not come to him as mentioned in James 1:6-8, “(that) …let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord. A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.”

   Acts 5:32 mentions that the Holy Ghost is granted to a person who obeys God instead of those with rebellious heart to seek to go against Him. Acts 5:32, “And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.” As the phrase, the Holy Ghost, is mentioned in Acts 5:32 with the phrase, God hath given to them that obey him, it implies that the Holy Ghost would only be granted to those who obey God and that is why repentance of sin and turning away from evil deeds are needed prior to the receipt of the Holy Ghost. Thus, it has placed a query whether the Holy Spirit would come upon those people who proclaims to believe in Jesus and yet refuse to turn away from sin, such as, praying to idols & etc., to live in darkness.

   Could a person be saved if he proclaims to believe in Jesus and to repent from sin and even to have prayed to receive Jesus Christ as his personal saviour and yet he does not know Jesus’ resurrection? The phrase, unless ye have believed in vain, is mentioned in 1 Corinthians 15:2, “(with the phrase,) By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you,” Do you think what kind of Gospel that Paul stressed in 1 Corinthians 15:2 that we would turn up to be in vain if we do not uphold it? 1 Corinthians 15:3-4, “(mention that) For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:” As 1 Corinthians 15:2 relates a person’s faith to be in vain if he does not uphold Jesus’ resurrection in 1 Corinthians 15:3-4, could his faith save him? Thus, it gives a significant truth that a person’s faith must be strongly grounded with Jesus’ resurrection. Many Charismatic churches have tried to avoid sharing Jesus’ resurrection to their followers and only emphasize only belief in Jesus. According to 1 Corinthians 15:2, their faith would turn up to be in vain if these people who proclaim to be saved do not know whether Jesus had died for their sins and had risen on the third day. As 1 Corinthians 15:2 considers their faith to be in vain, how could they be saved then? Thus, the word, belief, in the scripture has to be accompanied with the acknowledgement of Jesus’ resurrection. Nevertheless, a person must have the knowledge about Jesus’ resurrection before praying sinner’s prayer.

   John 16:7 mentions that the Holy Spirit would come after the departure of Jesus. Or in other words, all the people as mentioned in the four gospels should not have received the Holy Spirit prior to the death of Jesus. The following is the extract: John 16:7, “Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.”

   Should a woman in Matthew 9:22, Mark 5:34 & Luke 8:48 be treated as receiving eternal life prior to Jesus’ death since He called her to be His daughter? It might not be true that this woman had been granted with eternal life prior to the receipt of the Holy Spirit if the reason for Jesus called her to be His daughter was merely He was the creator of her while she was in her mother’s womb.

   The word, save, might be used in the four gospels as merely the forgiveness of past sin that they had committed so that they would not be judged for the past sin that they had committed instead of referring it to they would have a place in heaven eternally. The following are the extracts: Matthew 1:21, “And she shall bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.”; Luke 7:48, “And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven.”; Luke 7:50, “And he said to this woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.” Note: Jesus told that woman in Luke 7:50 that her faith had saved her from punishment of her past sin. How about future sin that she could be judged between the time her sin be forgiven by Jesus and the time of her death. Nothing is mentioned she had obtained eternal life other than she had been saved from the punishment of her past sin, instead of future sin, through Jesus’ forgiveness of sin.

   The word, save, in the four gospels might be used in the four gospels to be interpreted as rescuing a person from his physical illnesses or death while on earth instead of being interpreted as obtaining eternal life. The following are the extracts: Matthew 8:25, “And his disciples came to him, and awoke him, saying, Lord, save: we perish.”; Matthew 14:30, “But when he saw the wind boisterous, he was afraid; and beginning to sink, he cried, saying, Lord, save me.”; Mark 3:4, “And he saith unto them, Is it lawful to do good on the Sabbath days, or to do evil? To save life, or to kill? But they held their peace.”

   Besides, Matthew 19:25-26 do not mention that the disciples had received immediate eternal life during their speech with Jesus prior to their receipt of the Holy Spirit. The following are the extracts: Matthew 19:25-26, “When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved. But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.” When Peter enquired Jesus Matthew 19:27, “…we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?”, Matthew 19:28-29, “Jesus said unto them, …ye which have followed me…shall sit in the throne of his glory… And every one that hath forsaken houses, …for my name’s sake, …shall inherit everlasting life.” The phrases, shall inherit everlasting life, and, shall sit in the throne of his glory, in Matthew 19:28-29 in future tense imply the disciples did not inherit everlasting life while Jesus was having His speech with them in Matthew 19:28-29. They should have received the everlasting life after the death of Jesus since the Holy Spirit could only come to them after Jesus’ departure as mentioned in John 16:7.

   Should Luke 23:39, “one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him” be treated as a saint of God when Luke 23:43, “Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.” As John 16:7, “(mentions that) if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you…”, it implies that the thief as mentioned in Luke 23:43 should not have received the Holy Spirit since Jesus had not died or had not departed from this world. As the thief was not granted with the Holy Spirit, he was none of His (Romans 8:9). Unless Luke 23:43, “(has been changed as) …To day shalt (Jesus be in you or the Holy Spirit be in you)”, it would then be justified that the thief had received the Holy Spirit when Jesus was having His dialogue with him in Luke 23:43. Despite nothing is mentioned that the thief belonged to Christ or he was filled with the Holy Spirit in Luke 23:43 since Jesus had not departed from the world during His dialogue with him (John 16:7), Jesus promised him to go side by side Luke 23:43, “(with) me (to) paradise (KJV).” Does Luke 23:43 imply that he was granted with eternal life since it is mentioned that he could be in paradise with him? It is hard to conclude it since Ecclessiastes 12:7 mentions that every spirit returns to God. The following is the extract: Ecclessiates 12:7, “Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.” If the word, return, in Luke 23:43 implies temporary dwelling at paradise to be waiting for God’s judgment in the last day so as to decide what his final destiny should be, either to eternal condemnation or to everlasting living with God, Luke 23:43 could not be used to support that the thief could be saved with everlasting life since every spirit would return God there (Eccl 12:7).

   Nevertheless, it is irrational to extract any event from the four gospels prior to the death of Jesus to support that people could belong to God at the absence of the receipt of the Holy Spirit prior to the death of Jesus to counteract Romans 8:9, “(that mentions that) …if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.”

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7. Repentance – continues – part 2

   Mark 16:16, “(mentions that) He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.” Could water baptism save a person? Let’s meditate Acts 19:2-6. Acts 19:2-2, “He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John’s baptism.” They did receive water baptism and yet the Holy Spirit did not come unto them as mentioned prior to Acts 19:6. Thus, water baptism could not cause the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Did they receive the Holy Spirit when Acts 19:5, “they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus”? No, they did not receive the Holy Spirit even though they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. They only received the Holy Spirit Acts 19:6, “…when Paul had laid his hands upon them, (since it mentions that after he laid hands upon them), the Holy Ghost came on them…” There is no scriptural verse to support that God would grant the Holy Spirit at the time of laying hands. Laying hands for the receipt of the Holy Spirit is only mentioned in Acts 19:6. What if laying hands might not necessarily be accompanied with the Holy Spirit, those people, who rely on laying hands to receive the Holy Spirit, might not be saved as a result of the Spirit does not come to them. Thus, the only source to receive the Holy Spirit and to have confidence with our salvation could only be through asking God to grant them the Holy Spirit by sinner’s prayer. We must not presume ourselves to have the Holy Spirit. Or else, we could regret eternally when Jesus would tell us He never knows us.

   1 Corinthians 12:3, “Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God called Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.” Could we use this verse to support that those people who call Jesus to be their Lord could have received eternal lives? No, it is not true since Matthew 7:22-23, “(mention that) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? And in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.” As Jesus would mention to them who have called Jesus to be their Lord Matthew 7:23, “I never knew you”, it implies that they do not belong to God. Romans 8:9, “(gives the possible reason why they could not be considered to belong to God is they do not have the Spirit of Christ in them since It is mentioned that) …if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.” The phrase, by the Holy Ghost, as mentioned in 1 Corinthians 12:3 might possibly be interpreted as the Holy Spirit is outside their bodies to stimulate them to call Jesus as Lord instead of being interpreted the indwelling of the Holy Spirit causes them to acknowledge Jesus to be their Lord. If that is so, it is irrational to use 1 Corinthians 12:3 to conclude that all the people who proclaim Jesus to be the Lord must be the saints of God.

   Is it true that those Charismatic people who could perform miracles in Jesus’ name belong to God and they would have a place in heaven eternally? Matthew 7:22-23, “Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? And in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.” As the phrase, in thy name done many wonderful works, is mentioned in Matthew 7:22-23 with the word, Lord, it implies that Charismatic people could not proclaim to belong to God as a result of their miraculous work performed in Jesus’ name since the phrase, I never knew you, is mentioned lately.

   Should Romans 10:13, “(be used to support that anybody who calls the name of the Lord could be saved since it mentions that) …whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.”? How about Acts 2:21, “And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.” We must not use these verses to conclude it without reading other verses in the scripture since Matthew 7:21, “(mentions that) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven.” As the phrase, Not every one…saith unto me Lord, is mentioned in Matthew 7:21 with the phrase, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven, it implies that calling the name of the Lord might not be saved.

   Luke 6:46 demands all the people who call Jesus to be their Lord to obey His commandments. The following is the extract: Luke 6:46, “And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?” The same is mentioned in Matthew 7:21, “(that) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.” The phrase, he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven, in Matthew 7:21 demands people to obey God’s commandments.

   Romans 10:9, “That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised from him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.” Could we use Romans 10:9 to support that a person could be saved through believing in Jesus’ resurrection? No, we must not isolate ourselves to Romans 10:9 without reading other parts of the scripture to conclude that he could be saved through believing in Jesus’ resurrection without repentance of sin. This is by virtue of 1 John 2:4, “(mentions that) He that saith I know him, and keepth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.” As the phrase, keepeth not his commandments, is mentioned in 1 John 2:4 with the phrase, the truth is not in him, it implies that a person, who would confess his mouth Jesus and believe His resurrection, does not have the truth to be in him if he refuses to keep God’s commandments. As the truth is not in him as a result of his rejection of God’s commandment, his salvation is in query. What if he refuses to confess his sin before God, could he be saved when 1 John 1:10 mentions that God’s word is not in him if he says that he has not sinned? 1 John 1:10, “If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.” Sinner’s prayer provides a way out for a person to confess his sin before God and to seek God’s forgiveness of his sin.

   The word, believe, as mentioned in Acts 10:43, Acts 16:31, Acts 15:11, Romans 1:16, Romans 9:33, Romans 10:10-11, 1 Thessalonians 4:14, Ephesians 1:13, 1 John 5:13, 1 John 5:10 & 1 John 5:1 must be accompanied with repentance and also the confession of sin as spelt out in John 12:46, “(that)…whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.” The word, whosoever, in John 12:46 refers to anybody whether he or she has just first started to proclaim with his or her mouth to believe in Jesus. As the phrase, should not abide in darkness, is mentioned in John 12:46 with the word, whosoever, it implies that a person who has the hope to be born again must not abide in darkness before his or her conversion. The same is mentioned in 2 Thessalonians 2:12, “(that) That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.” A person needs to repent from sin in order not to live in darkness. He also needs to receive God’s cleansing of sin in order to have his sin to be wiped out so that he could be pure without darkness of sin in him. Forgiveness of sin is available through the confession of sin before God as mentioned in For 1 John 1:9, “(that) If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.”

   Jesus is the only source to salvation as spelt out in John 10:9, “I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out and find pasture.” Salvation could only be activated through the receipt of the Spirit of Christ (Romans 8:9). Other than the receipt of the Spirit of Christ, there is no way that a person could be saved. Praying sinner’s prayer provides a way out for people to ask to receive Jesus to be their personal saviour.

   Could Christians’ children be granted with salvation automatically? Ezekiel 14:20, “Though Noah, Daniel, and Job were in it, as I live, saith the Lord God , they shall deliver neither son nor daughter; they shall but deliver their own souls by their righteousness.” The same is in Ezekiel 14:18, “Though these men were in it, as I live, saith the Lord GOD, they shall deliver neither sons nor daughters, but they only shall be delivered themselves.” The same is mentioned also in Ezekiel 14:14, “(that) Though these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they should deliver but their own souls by their righteousness, saith the Lord.”

   When does a child commit sin? Psalms 58:3, “The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.”

   What is our attitude to those people have been misled by false teaching? James 5:19-20, “Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from err of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.”

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   1. You have said a lot but I’m not sure what point you are trying to make. In my article, I was making a connection with a “real world” event as the practice of quoting the sinner’s prayer is a common Christian custom that many people perform and are led to believing that this is how one becomes “right with God”. Throughout your response, you seem to be particularly interested in disqualifying people from God’s salvation. God is only calling his chosen elect to salvation in this life. In the future age of judgment, God will call all of his creation to salvation in Christ. There are literally millions and possibly even billions of people that are long dead that have never even heard of the name Jesus Christ and yet we are told in the book of Acts that there is but one name that men can call upon for salvation and that is the name of Jesus Christ. Paul also tells us in 1 Corinthians 15 that all shall be made alive but each man in his own order. There are two resurrections – the first for God’s elect and these are those who will reign with Christ for the millennia and then the second resurrection which occurs after the millennia and this is the resurrection to judgment. God’s judgment on the world will lead to the salvation of all…

      “Isaiah 26:9 With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy JUDGMENTS are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness”.

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      1. in the millienium reign of Christ ,who will be saved on earth?who will they rule and reign with? is it only themselves and jesus reigning? just want to find out will the elect and jesus be the only people during that time? or will they rule over other people during that time?

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      2. Nobody because reigning with Christ for 1,000 years is the reward for believers not salvation for the lost/wicked. Their salvation doesn’t come until they are judged in the resurrection to judgment. The elect and Jesus Christ will be the only people living during that time because …the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished (Revelation 20:5). They will rule over all peoples of the earth but that won’t happen until everyone is brought back to life in the resurrection.

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      3. Sulaiman Randolph — I will assume that you have learned the doctrine of Universalist where everyone is saved, even those who will not believe in Christ. Is that a correct assumption? Apology if i made the wrong one. Are you telling us that everyone will be saved no matter what? I will quote your last phrase before Isaiah 26:9 — ” There are two resurrections – the first for God’s elect and these are those who will reign with Christ for the millennia and then the second resurrection which occurs after the millennia and this is the resurrection to judgment. God’s judgment on the world will lead to the salvation of all…” .

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      4. The scriptures tell us that every knee will bow and every tongue will confess to God. God has given all authority to Christ in heaven and in earth. There is no power in heaven or in earth that will not be in subjection to Christ’s authority. That includes man disbelief. I have never stated that everyone will be saved no matter what. Everyone will be saved because God has decreed it. How He accomplishes saving the world has proven to be quite the mystery given the state of affairs regarding Christianity’s understanding of the topic. There is NO scripture in the entire bible they states that God’s salvation expires after death. The majority of the world will experience salvation post resurrection. God will be All in All so how can anyone be left out?

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      5. It is a while since my last comment and your reply to me (June 16 2019). I did not continue the discussion following your reply to me but I remained “subscribed” to this thread to received emails of other comments and replies…… to be fair in opportunity to understand your teaching.
         A most recent reply to someone calling themselves “sinner saved be grace” prompts me to seek further clarification of your teaching.
         “Sinner saved by grace”……. questioned your teaching……
         the “second resurrection which occurs after the millennia and this is the resurrection to judgment. God’s judgment on the world will lead to the salvation of all…” .

         The Real Gospel of Christ replied:
         NOVEMBER 3, 2019 AT 3:12 PM 

“The scriptures tell us that every knee will bow and every tongue will confess to God”.
         And:
         “I have never stated that everyone will be saved no matter what. Everyone will be saved because God has decreed it.”
         —————————————
         Firstly, your reference that “every tongue will confess to God”, I presume you are quoting Romans 14:11.
         But why are you not using scripture to interpret scripture in this case?
         Paul is quoting from Isaiah 45:23
         The word translated “confess” here is ἐξομολογήσεται and in the context of every knee “bowing down” it means: “every tongue shall give praise to God”
         And it is rendered as such in the NAS / NASB
         NIV “Acknowledge God”
         NASB “Give praise to God”
         APE “Every tongue shall swear”
         CSB “will give praise to God”
         OJB. For it is written, ” As I live, says Hashem, before Me KOL BERECH (every knee) will bow and KOL LASHON (every tongue) shall give praise to Hashem”
         The same word is used in Matt 11:25. I shall praise / I shall thank /
         and in Philippians 2:11 “confess that Jesus is Lord”
         Also Romans 10:9. “…… confess with your mouth…. … that Jesus is LORD….”
         Every person will eventually have no option other than to confess/admit/acknowledge that Jesus is LORD.
         But how does this prove your teaching of all being saved?
         Thus the second statement in your reply to “sinner saved by grace” is merely repeating the assertion that “God has decreed” that all will be saved….. which is not what Romans 14:11 is declaring.
         ——————————-
         Just returning to a couple of points that you made in your reply to me in June….. and something I noticed in some reply to others:
         I do not appreciate how the idea of being saved by grace has anything to do with feeling proud of one’s self. Everyone has a choice to humble themselves to accept the offer of salvation or reject it. Any idea of being chosen due to any merit or worthiness of our own is contrary to everything I read about the “elect”.
         You speak of the “elect” being a “special calling” to teach…. to know what to believe……
         But if all will be saved, there is no need for anyone to believe anything.
         Atheists will be saved.
         According to your teaching, they will just not belong to the “elect”….. who spend 1000 years reigning and ruling with Christ on the earth…… where there is no one else except the “elect” to rule over…….?????
         That interpretation of the millennial reign does not make sense to my reading of the winding up of the Church age; the coming of the LORD to rule in peace for 1000 years; demonstrating how the earth could have been governed by humans ruling in righteousness.
         ——————————————
         In my previous comments I asked a range of questions.
         There were serious questions. But your reply to me was:
         “all you have presented to me is a series of questions that you seemingly don’t even really want answers to. If you understand every question you asked, why are you asking me questions? Let every man be convinced in his own mind.”
         I am not sure what you mean by “understand every question”. The reason I was asking you the questions is for opportunity for you to clarify what I see as logical inconsistencies with the idea of an “elect”…… apparently a group of specially called teachers who teach about being called to become one of the “elect”….. which seems to have no purpose other than to be one of the “elect”.
         If that is the only reward for accepting the call of Romans 10:9, then we have nothing to offer atheists…… because why should they not simply continue their lives without acknowledging God….with no repentance….. as they will be saved in the end anyway.
         To give you credit, you did attempt to answer my questions, but forgive me for not following your logic. You wrote:
         “If according to your logic, the punishment for sin is ETERNAL DESTRUCTION then Christ having paid for the penalty of sin for humanity should have NEVER been raised from the dead.”
         What……?? No. His resurrection is what qualifies/establishes our own resurrection. 1 Cor 15:17-23
         Again you wrote:
         “……If a person is responsible for saving BILLIONS of people, wouldn’t that qualify as being a SUPERHERO or a SUPER-SAVIOR?”
         But if you believe that all will ultimately be saved, no human is required to be responsible for saving anyone.
         Ultimately, the reason for becoming one of the “elect” seems to be for the perceived prestige of it.
         You wrote:
         “…….prestige of any calling is based on the office……. We are talking about the Creator of the UNIVERSE and this same Creator decides to choose you to serve in His government….. Out of the billions upon billions of people that have existed throughout the history of humanity, God chooses YOU to serve on His special counsel……..”
         And your closing comment seems to confirm my fears about this:
         You wrote:
         “Maybe you are simply not worthy of the high calling of being a member of God’s elect seeing as you deem it as something so meaningless…”
         So true. I am not “worthy”…. no one is…… and if you think you are, perhaps you could reconsider…… but in any case, I reject your loaded comment that I deem our “calling” is “meaningless”.
         And just finally, I am not sure why you complain…… “you are essentially accusing me of changing bible words to mean something they do not mean? That’s a pretty unfair accusation……”
         But are you not doing the very same thing every time you “explain” why other’s reading of scripture is not what you believe it is?
         If we disagree on meaning of words, such as that ‘destruction’ does not mean ‘destruction’, or as at the beginning of my comments above, where “confess to God” does not refer to confessing sins, but rather to acknowledge that Jesus is LORD (Kurios), it is best not to interpret the disagreement as an accusation….. because that cuts both ways.
         Blessings.

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      6. Hello Alan it’s good to hear from you again. I’m glad you took some time to have additional dialogue with me and I’d be happy to respond to your comments. So, in regards to Romans 14:11, I’m not exactly sure what you are arguing because at first it seems as if you are saying that “confess” is not an appropriate translation for the Greek word “exomologeō” but then you go on to describe it as such. I think it matters little whether we say confess, acknowledge, swear, or even praise because the concept really doesn’t change much. Every knee will bow and every tongue will confess to God in subjugation but do you know why that is? You say, “Every person will eventually have no option other than to confess/admit/acknowledge that Jesus is LORD” but my question to you is WHY? What would cause the whole world to be in subjugation to God the Creator of the Universe? Let me be clear about something… The teaching of all being saved is NOT my teaching, it is God’s teaching. I think I’ve shared several scriptures with you that attest to that fact but it is clear that you disagree with what the scriptures say on that topic. I think we can at least agree that a person would have to bow down to someone for a reason right? Have you ever made a confession without a reason? Have you ever acknowledged something that had no meaning behind it? Would you praise someone or something that wasn’t worthy? Romans 14:11 doesn’t have to specifically declare that all will be saved but when we do actually “use scripture to interpret scripture” the truth can really shine. God has DECREED that all will be saved and it’s written in His word…

         1 Timothy 2:3-4 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

         Who will have ALL MEN to be saved? How do you get around that scripture? Are you going to tell me that the word “will” only means to “desire” as if God can’t accomplish what He desires…

         Isaiah 46:9-10 Remember what I accomplished in antiquity! Truly I am God, I have no peer; I am God, and there is none like me, who announces the end from the beginning and reveals beforehand what has not yet occurred, who says, ‘My plan will be realized, I WILL ACCOMPLISH WHAT I DESIRE,’ (NET Bible)

         Anyone that believes that God has saved them would willfully and graciously bow down to God and confess to Him out of love and gratitude. If God is then able to actually accomplish what He desires i.e. (having all men to be saved), then just maybe, just maybe… EVERY KNEE WILL BOW AND EVERY TONGUE WILL CONFESS TO GOD because of the love and goodness of God. God is love and God will be ALL in ALL!

         Alan, you say that, “Everyone has a choice to humble themselves to accept the offer of salvation or reject it” but I’m curious to know if this “salvation” you speak about is Christianity’s version of what God’s salvation? We would first have to agree what salvation is and how God accomplishes it before I could even legitimately answer that question. With that said, let me ask you a question… Did you have to accept being born under the law of sin because of Adam’s transgression? Romans chapter 5 talks about the parallel between Adam and Christ. The entire humanity was subjected to Adam’s curse and there isn’t a person on this planet that had to accept what Adam did. The idea that a person has to “accept or reject” the work of Christ is asinine to me.

         1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive.
         It is clear that we as in ALL of humanity die because of what Adam did. 1 Corinthians 15:22 tells us with the same All of humanity in view that they will likewise be made alive because of what Christ did. Is Adam greater than Christ? All will eventually “accept Christ” and there’s nothing anybody can do about it. It’s going to happen because it is God’s plan and He will execute His plan.

         I’ve never stated that a person is chosen based on any merits of their own but followers must grow and bear fruit. If God is working in a believer’s life do you not think that the believer should grow stronger and deeper in the faith the longer they are walking with God? There are literally dozens of scriptures that illustrate how God attempts to work in a person’s life but we allow other things to get in the way. A person cannot expect to grow spiritually in their lives if they simply refuse to do what Christ commands His followers to do. I do not say this to boast for I have many weaknesses and I fall at times. But spiritual growth is a process no different than physical growth. It doesn’t happen overnight. I don’t know where you got the idea that I think that God’s grace has anything to do with a person feeling proud of themselves. Why do you make such assumptions? Being a member of the elect has everything to do with “OVERCOMING” the world but that is a lifelong process. Paul talks about being disqualified in the race.

         You said, “But if all will be saved, there is no need for anyone to believe anything…. atheist will be saved” but what makes you think that an atheist can’t be converted in the resurrection to judgment? I have already showed you that learning righteousness is a product of God’s judgment. Daniel 12:3 says that MANY will be turned to righteousness and this comes after what is understood to be the JUDGMENT. Where else have we seen the word MANY? Could this be the same MANY that go down the broad way leading to destruction? But you think destruction is permanent… If I tear down my house can it not be rebuilt? Do you think God is incapable of rebuilding what He destroys? God judges in righteousness. He doesn’t torture or permanently destroy His creation. Would you torture or permanently destroy your creation? Everyone is born a sinner and essentially an unbeliever before being introduced to the gospel of Christ. With enough time and through the proper corrective judgment, God will cause ALL of humanity to repent resulting in the salvation of the world. God’s salvation belongs to God not you! An atheist is far less dangerous than a Christian pastor as far as I’m concerned given the damnable heresies that they preach from their pulpits. I could easily argue that most atheists exist because of the damnable heresies of Christianity.

         In our previous dialogue and I’m simply going off of memory, I answered some of your questions and your response to me was, “I understand every question you asked I just wanted to see your answers”. So I responded by saying, “If you understand every question you asked, why are you asking me questions? Let every man be convinced in his own mind.” I think that I have a better gist of what you are asking now even though I feel like I’ve answered you. Let me be clear about something… I’m not teaching anyone about how to be a member of the elect. I would never even make such a claim. What I do try to do is undo much of what has been corrupted by historical and modern Christianity as a religion of men. We can talk about “the elect” and what it means to be a part of the group but I do really try to be careful not to come off as arrogant. I have never even made a direct claim to being a member of the elect. I believe that the majority of the confusion between what I say and what you believe is that we disagree on some foundational truths. It will prove to be a great challenge for me to convince you otherwise if that remains the case.

         You say that Romans 10:9 is a call to accept but where did you get that idea from? Is that not what Christianity teaches in regards to how a person is saved? I don’t deny the scripture but it is certainly not a call to accept that expires at a person’s death. You continue to say that there’s no point of anything if everyone will be saved ANYWAY but nobody will be saved ANYWAY. Everyone will be saved GOD’S WAY! God has a salvation ORDER that is described in 1 Corinthians 15:23-28. I’m going to quote what is written from the Message bible and while I will admit that one should be careful in following its contemporary style, this particular passage is actually spot on;
         1 Corinthians 15:23-28 There is a nice symmetry in this: Death initially came by a man, and resurrection from death came by a man. EVERYBODY DIES IN ADAM; EVERYBODY COMES ALIVE IN CHRIST. BUT WE HAVE TO WAIT OUR TURN: CHRIST IS FIRST, THEN THOSE WITH HIM AT HIS COMING, THEN THE GRAND CONSUMMATION WHEN, after crushing the opposition, he hands over his kingdom to God the Father. He won’t let up until the last enemy is down—and the very last enemy is death! As the psalmist said, “He laid them low, one and all; he walked all over them.” When Scripture says that “he walked all over them,” it’s obvious that he couldn’t at the same time be walked on. When everything and everyone is finally under God’s rule, the Son will step down, taking his place with everyone else, showing that God’s rule is absolutely comprehensive—a perfect ending! (The Message)
         God is NOT calling everyone to salvation during this age of deception that’s why many are called but few are chosen.

         In regards to our discussion about “eternal destruction”, if my memory serves me correct, I believe that you support to the belief in annihilationism. Correct me if I’m wrong but my comment was a rebuttal against that position. If eternal destruction is the punishment for sin and Christ died for the sins of the world, the only logical conclusion is that Christ should’ve been eternally destroyed but we know that is not the case. I was simply showing the illogical fallacy in your theology in regards to eternal destruction. The teaching of eternal destruction is HERESY. Destruction is temporary as the proper definition for the Greek word “aionios” is AGE-DURING not eternal.

         Alan, you are not making much sense with your argument against all being ultimately saved. You say, “no human is required to be responsible for saving anyone” but that’s exactly how God has set it up for the world to be saved. You seem to have a problem with God’s plan not my logic. I simply do not understand how you miss the part of salvation being a process. God declares the end from the beginning. All will be saved but not before experiencing a life of good and evil and going through corrective judgment. That applies to EVERYONE!

         If God deems you worthy, then you are worthy by His own standards. That has nothing to do with you, me, or anyone else running around shouting it from the mountain tops. Nobody chooses to become a member of the “elect”. God chooses just like He chose to exalt His Son. Are you going to argue the prestige of Christ? The higher the office the higher the prestige… That is just plain common sense and it has nothing to do with boasting about one’s one accomplishment. What is actually ironic is that I get more self-righteous attitudes from Christians than any other group of people on the planet. They are the ones that think they are special by somehow avoiding their own pagan fables. If you are a king your children are royalty simply by bloodline. Can they not feel honor in who created them and made them a part of the royal family? I meant no disrespect to you when I stated, “Maybe you are simply not worthy of the high calling of being a member of God’s elect seeing as you deem it as something so meaningless…” The reason I said that is because you continued to make remarks as if being a member of the “elect” was nothing simply because all are saved. It’s like you think people being permanently killed brings more merit to the status of the elect than actually saving people. I just don’t get it. When is death better than life? When is destruction better than salvation? Your arguments seem to place death and destruction as virtues over life and salvation. I’d like to think that the salvation of all is a much more virtuous plan than mass genocide.

         Your last statement has to do with the definition of words and how people interpret certain words which is not the same thing. Words have definitions for a reason and we can’t just make up our own definition for words just because it supports our individual theology. When I write an article, I am writing to potential readers which is much different than having individual dialogue with a person. I can’t remember exactly what you said in the original comment but whatever it was I’m sure it came across as an accusation and not a mere point of disagreement. I never said destruction doesn’t mean destruction. I’ve simply argued that what can be destroyed can be restored but your idea of what destruction means is dependent on your theology. The phrase “confess to God” is a much bigger issue because we are dealing with multiple words and I never said it was referring to the confessing of sins. We can agree to disagree on many topics but I’ve taken nothing personal and I appreciate the dialogue.

         Blessings to you and your family!

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8. Hi Sulaiman,

   I will like to comment briefly on your quote below:

   Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. This scripture may sound like it fits the sinner’s prayer; however, the truth is that this scripture has nothing to do with the lost receiving salvation. This scripture is dealing with the salvation of Israel because Israel got it wrong with all of their self-righteousness. Instead of having faith, they chose to live by the letter of the law but they were empty in their works because they had no faith. Why ignore Romans 10:3?

   While i agree with your view on the “sinners’ prayer,” I differ a bit on your submission that the scripture you quoted above “is dealing with the salvation of Israel.” Paul wrote this letter to the Church and has nothing to do with Israel. Israel’s mode of salvation was in fulfilling the law not on believing in Jesus. Everyone that fulfilled “the law and the prophet” in that dispensation (Israel) was saved. (Read Mat 19:16-19). Jesus is the end of the dispensation of the “law and the prophet” as midwifed by John the Baptist (Mat 11:12). Israel didn’t have to believe in Jesus to be saved in that dispensation. But Pentecost (the church) age signaled a new dispensation (covenant). Salvation is no longer by the law and the prophet (letter) but by grace through faith (Holy Spirit). This is when to believe in Jesus, confess with the mouth and to believe in the heart… becomes relevant. This is the “new covenant.”

   Don’t also forget that Israel did not believe Jesus that time because of “blindness in part” for the Gentiles’ sake (Rom 11:25). Their time to believe in Jesus will be at His second coming – “the fullness of time of the Gentiles,” which dominate at the rapture. We are still in the age of the Gentiles – the church age and the mode of salvation in the dispensation is to believe in Jesus and that God raised him from the dead (grace through faith) which Paul was refering to.

   As you rightly said, Israel chose to live by “the letter” – the law rather than by faith and that was why they didn’t believe Jesus because all they had was works. This is sadly the path the present church system is toeing including the use of psychology to coerce people into salvation and denominational membership through mere emotions, sentiments and blackmail of hell rather than personal relationship with JesUs. Jesus said no man can come to him except the Father DRAGS him. Preachers cannot save people; they can hardly save themselves. We are to challenge people to repentance towards God. Jesus is the savior of ALL, especially they that believe (1Tim 4:10). Everyone in his own own order (1Cor 5:23). Thus, the letter of Paul was to the church. Israel is past and Future. The church is present until rapture when the church is taken away and Israel comes back to the scene.

   Always a blessing to read your thoughts!

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   1. Hello Jordan and thanks for your comment… After reading your comment and going back to reread what I wrote, I must agree with you in part. I didn’t make my point clear enough in explaining the meaning of Romans 10:9 and its relationship to the sinner’s prayer. It is true that Romans 10:9 is not necessarily “dealing with the salvation of Israel” but rather a formula of salvation that BEGINS with faith in Christ. My point was to explain that salvation is God’s business and it is God that must call someone to Christ and grant them the gift of faith necessary to believe.

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9. Do you have any pieces on the prophesies Daniel talked about? Like the 4 parts of the statue, 4 beasts, the ram and goat, and the 70 weeks

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   1. I haven’t written anything on those topics as of yet but I do plan to address some of the prophecies of Daniel in the future…

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10. I like to say jesus isnt saving us “FROM” somthing….he is saving us “TO” something.

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    1. Jesus saves humanity “FROM” many things…

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       1. Can you explain the lake of fire.

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       2. https://therealgospelofchrist.com/the-lake-of-fire-this-is-a-symbol/

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11. SALVATION
    (Most of the scriptural verses are in King James Version unless otherwise specified.)

    1) The recognition of the resurrection of Jesus

    Could a person be saved if he or she proclaims to believe in Jesus & to repent from sin & even to have prayed to receive Jesus Christ to be his or her personal saviour & yet he or she does not know Jesus’ resurrection? The phrase, unless ye have believed in vain, is mentioned in 1 Corinthians 15:2 (King James Version), “(with the phrase,) By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you,” Do you think what kind of Gospel that Paul stressed in 1 Corinthians 15:2 that we would turn up to be in vain if we do not uphold it? 1 Corinthians 15:3-4, “(mention that) For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; & that he was buried, & that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:” As 1 Corinthians 15:2 relates a person’s faith to be in vain if he or she does not uphold Jesus’ resurrection in 1 Corinthians 15:3-4, his or her salvation is in uncertainty. Thus, it gives a significant truth that a person’s faith must be strongly grounded with Jesus’ resurrection. Many Charismatic churches have tried to avoid sharing Jesus’ resurrection to their followers & only emphasize on belief in Jesus. According to 1 Corinthians 15:2, their faith would turn up to be in vain if these people who proclaim to be saved do not know whether Jesus had died for their sins & had risen on the third day. As 1 Corinthians 15:2 considers their faith to be in vain, how could they be saved? Thus, the word, belief, in the scripture has to be accompanied with acknowledgement of Jesus’ resurrection. It is a must to have the knowledge about Jesus’ resurrection before praying sinner’s prayer.

    2) Repentance

    Should repentance be interpreted as recognition that Jesus as Lord instead of praying a prayer to acknowledge our sinfulness & to ask God for His forgiveness?

    In order to comprehend the word, repentance, let’s meditate 1 John 2:4 below: 1 John 2:4, “He that saith, I know him, & keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, & the truth is not in him. (KJV)” As the phrase, keepeth not his commandments, is mentioned in 1 John 2:3 with the phrase, the truth is not in him, it gives a significant truth that a person, who simply proclaims with his mouth to believe in Jesus & yet does not keep God’s commandment, would not have the truth in him. As the truth is not in him at the absence of God’s commandment in him, do you think he could be saved since 1 John 2:4, “(even calls him to be) …a liar…”?

    The same is in 1 John 2:3, “(that) …we know him, if we keep his commandments.” As the phrase, we know him, is mentioned in 1 John 2:3 with the phrase, if we keep his commandments, it implies that we could only be able to proclaim to know God if we keep God’s commandment. It raises a query whether a person could proclaim to know God if he proclaims to believe in Jesus & yet insists not to keep God’s commandment since 1 John 2:3, “(comments that he could only declare himself to) know him, if (he) keep(s) his commandment.”. As he could not proclaim himself to know God due to he insists not to keep God’s commandment, could he be saved then?

    When Jesus was confronted by a person who requested him Matthew 19:16, “…what…shall I do, that I may have eternal life? (KJV)”, His immediate response towards the way to eternal life was Matthew 19:17, “…if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.” The commandments that Matthew 19:18, “Jesus said, (are) Thou shalt do no murder, thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not hear false witness, Honour thy father & thy mother: &, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.” For instance, if the way to eternal life is simply to Matthew 19:21, “…come & follow (Jesus & to believe in Him without the repentance of sin)”, why should Jesus mention in Matthew 19:17, “(that his ambition to) enter into life (could only be met by) keep(ing) the commandments.”? Thus, it raises a query whether a person could be saved if he proclaims to believe in Jesus & yet insists not to keep God’s commandment.

    James 2:10-12 relate keeping God’s commandment to obeying them. James 2:10-12, “For whosoever shall keep the whole law, & yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. So speak ye, & so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.”

    1 John 1:6, “If we say that we have fellowship with him, & walk in darkness, we lie, & do not the truth.” As the phrase, walk in darkness, is mentioned in 1 John 1:6 with the phrase, If we say that we have fellowship with him…we lie, it implies that we must not walk in darkness in order that we could comment ourselves to have fellowship with Jesus. As we could not proclaim to have fellowship with Jesus as a result of our insisting to walk in darkness, could our faith save us? 1 John 1:6, “(even mentions that we) do not the truth” when we insist to walk in darkness.

    The word, Repentance, has been mentioned in Acts 8:22 to interlink with getting away from our wickedness instead of simply our recognition towards Jesus as Lord. The following is the extract: Acts 8:22, “Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, & pray God, if the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.” The same is in 2 Corinthians 12:21, “(that) …many which have sinned already, & have not repented of the uncleanness & fornication & lasciviousness which they have committed (KJV).”

    The word, repent, is placed on the first word, in Acts 2:38 prior to phrase, ye shall receive the…Holy Spirit, to stress repentance is needed prior to the receipt of the Holy Spirit: Acts 2:38-39, “Then Peter said unto them, Repent, & be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, & ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, & to your children, & to all that afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.”

    The word, believe, as mentioned in Acts 10:43, Acts 16:31, Acts 15:11, Romans 1:16, Romans 9:33, Romans 10:10-11, 1 Thessalonians 4:14, Ephesians 1:13, 1 John 5:13, 1 John 5:10 & 1 John 5:1 must be accompanied with repentance & confession of sin as spelt out in John 12:46, “(that)…whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.” The word, whosoever, in John 12:46 refers to anybody whether he or she has just first started to proclaim with his or her mouth to believe in Jesus. As the phrase, should not abide in darkness, is mentioned in John 12:46 with the word, whosoever, it implies that a person who has the hope to be born again must not abide in darkness before his or her conversion. For James 2:17, “(mentions that) Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.” Thus, faith & repentance from sin should not be separable. The same is in 2 Thessalonians 2:12, “That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.” A person needs to repent from sin in order not to live in darkness. He also needs to receive God’s cleansing of sin in order to have his sin to be wiped out so that he could be pure without darkness of sin in him. Forgiveness of sin is available through confession of sin before God as in 1 John 1:9, “(that) If we confess our sins, he is faithful & just to forgive us our sins, & to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.”

    Salvation is meant for those people who obey Jesus instead of those who simply proclaim to believe in Jesus & yet work contrarily against His commandment as mentioned in Hebrews 5:5, “(that)…Christ… (KJV)” Hebrews 5:9, “…being made perfect, he came the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;” The same is in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-8, “(that) …when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his might angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, & that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, & from the glory of his power:”; 1 John 2:17, “& the world passeth away, & the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth forever.”

    The word, love, in the scripture has been used to relate to keeping of God’s commandments. The following are the extracts: John 14:15, “If ye love me, keep my commandments.”; 1 John 5:3-4, “By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, & keep his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: & his commandments are not grievous.”; Romans 13:9, “For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; & if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.”

    Our God is not a God that could tolerate sin. The scripture even mentions that His anger is upon people who commit sin & He would hide from them for their sin as mentioned below: Deuteronomy 31:17-18, “Then my anger shall be kindled against them in that day, & I will forsake them, & I will hide my face from them, & they shall be devoured, & many evils & troubles shall befall them; …because our God is not among us? & I will surely hide my face in that day for all the evils which they shall have wrought, in that they are turned unto other gods. (KJV)” The same is in Isaiah 1:15-16, “(that) …I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood. …put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil:’ As the phrase, ye make many prayers I will not hear, is mentioned in Isaiah 1:15 with the phrase, your hands are full of blood, it implies that our God will not answer our prayer if we continue in sin without repentant heart. The same is in Micah 3:2, “(that) Who hate the good, & love the evil; …”, Micah 3:4, “Then shall they cry unto the LORD, but he will not hear them: he will even hide his face from them at that time, as they have behaved themselves ill in their doings.” As God will hide His face from people who love to do evil, do you think He would hide His face from them who pray sinner’s prayer & yet love evil without repentant heart? Do you think God would hide from those people who proclaim to believe in Jesus & yet keep on sinning? As God would hide from them, do you think they could be saved?

    Romans 10:9, “That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, & shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised from him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.” Could this verse be used to support a person could be saved through believing in Jesus’ resurrection without repentance of sin? No, we must not isolate ourselves to this verse without reading other verses to conclude he could be saved through believing in Jesus’ resurrection without repentance of sin. This is by virtue of 1 John 2:4, “(mentions that) He that saith I know him, & keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, & the truth is not in him.” As the phrase, keepeth not his commandments, is mentioned in 1 John 2:4 with the phrase, the truth is not in him, it implies that a person, who would confess Jesus & believe His resurrection, does not have the truth to be in him if he refuses to keep God’s commandments. The phrase, keepeth not his commandments, in 1 John 2:4 implies that there must be a sincere heart in turning away from the evil deeds that a person has committed and it does not apply to he or she who confesses his or her sin before God and yet does not have the mind to obey God’s commandment and keeps on enjoying sinning. As the truth is not in him as a result of his rejection of God’s commandment, his salvation is in query. What if he refuses to confess his sin before God, could he be saved when 1 John 1:10 mentions that God’s word is not in him if he says that he has not sinned? 1 John 1:10, “If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, & his word is not in us.” Sinner’s prayer provides a way out for a person to confess his sin before God & to seek His forgiveness of sin.

    Acts 5:32 mentions that the Holy Ghost is granted to a person who obeys God instead of those with rebellious heart to seek to go against Him. Acts 5:32, “& we are his witnesses of these things; & so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.” Luke 6:46 & Matthew 7:21 demand all the people who call Jesus to be their Lord to obey His commandments. The following are the extracts: Luke 6:46, “…why call ye me, Lord, Lord, & do not the things which I say?”; Matthew 7:21, “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.”

    Does it mean that there must be some outward evidence of turning away from sin in order to consider a person to have genuine repentance of sin? No, it is not true since salvation is Romans 11:6, “…by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace…” As salvation is not of work, a person needs not to produce evidence of obeying commandments in order to prove whether he has repented from sin. As long as that person who prays sinner’s prayer has the mind in turning away from sin even though no work has been demonstrated that he has been repented from his sin, it is considered that he has repented from sin. The scripture mentions that God sees the heart. As long as the heart has the desire to repent from sin, it is to be considered as repentance. The following are the extracts: Psalms 7:10, “My defence is of God, which saveth the upright in heart.”; Psalms 44:21, “Shall not God search this out? For he knoweth the secrets of the heart.”; Proverbs 21:2, “Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts.”; Proverbs 11:20, “They that are a froward heart are abomination to the LORD: but such as are upright way are his delight.”; Psalms 66:18, “If I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear me: (Do you think God will hear a person’s sinner prayer if he has the mind to continue in sinning? How about he has his mind to be set at repenting from sin. To him, God will hear his prayer since his heart has been set right before God since he does not regard iniquity in his heart.)” It certainly does not apply to those people who comment that they repent from their sin and yet their mind still does not set right before God since they intend to sin continuously. As these people pray sinner’s prayer and yet do not have their mind set in turning away from the previous sin that he has committed often, his sin could never be forgiven since God would not hear them as mentioned in Psalms 66:18. Even if he confesses his sin a hundred times before God, his sin will retain since his mind does not set right before God in the first place.

    3) Confession of sin

    Faith is directed from a person’s heart towards God: Psalms 62:8, “Trust in him; ye people, pour out your heart before him: God is a refuge for us. Selah.”; Psalms 95:10, “Forty years long was I grieved with this generation, & said, It is a people that do err in their heart, & they have not known my ways:”; Matthew 13:15, “For this people’s heart is waxed gross, & their ears are full of hearing, & their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, & hear with their ears, & should understand with their heart, & should be converted, & I should heal them.”

    Could a non-Christian be saved if he refuses to confess he is a sinner? 1 John 1:10, “If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, & his word is not in us.” As the phrase, If we say that we have not sinned, is mentioned in 1 John 1:10 with the phrase, his word is not in us, it implies that God’s word is not in a person if he refuses to admit he is a sinner. Besides, the phrase, if we say that we have not sinned, in 1 John 1:10 implies there must be sincere in his or her heart in regretting the quilt that he or she has been committed in the past. As God’s word is not in him if he insists not to admit that he does sin against God, how could he be saved then at the absence of God’s word to be in him? Thus, it would place a query whether he could be saved if he proclaims himself to believe in Jesus & yet insists that he is perfect before God without sin since 1 John 1:10 mentions that the word is not in him at the absence of his acknowledgement of his sin. Praying a sinner prayer provides a way out for a non-Christian to confess his sin before God to seek His forgiveness upon him. The reason is simply that he needs God’s cleansing of his past sin in order that he could be perfected. For 1 John 1:9, “(mentions that) If we confess our sins, he is faithful & just to forgive us our sins, & to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.”

    4) The significance of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit

    A person’s faith in Jesus & repentance of sin & even water baptism could not cause him to be saved since salvation is only activated through the indwelling of Spirit of Christ in him. Jesus is the only source to salvation as spelt out in John 10:9, “(that) I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, & shall go in & out & find pasture.” Even if he proclaims to believe in Jesus & has obeyed God’s commandments & even to receive water baptism, he still does not belong to God if he does not have the Spirit of Christ to be with him. For Romans 8:9, “(mentions that) …Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.” The phrase, Spirit of Christ, in Romans 8:9 refers inevitably the Spirit of Jesus Christ. As the Holy Spirit refers to the Spirit of Jesus Christ, it implies that this Spirit should come from Jesus Christ to dwell within our bodies.

    A person who says sinner’s prayer to pray for the receipt of the Holy Spirit must believe he has received it after prayer. Or else, his prayer would be in vain since the Holy Spirit would not come to him as mentioned in James 1:6-8, “(that) …let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind & tossed. For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord. A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.”

    5) Faith might not be accompanied with the receipt of the Holy Spirit

    Faith in Jesus might not be accompanied with the receipt of the Holy Spirit since Acts 19:2, “(mentions that) …Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? & they said unto him, We have not so much as heard there be any Holy Ghost.” For instance, if belief in Jesus would automatically cause the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, it does not matter whether they know it since it would come to them automatically. However, a query about the uncertainty of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is placed upon believers since the phrase, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed, is mentioned in Acts 19:2. We must not presume ourselves to have the Holy Spirit. Or else, we would regret eternally when Jesus would tell us He never knows us as in Matthew 7:23. Those people who call Jesus as Lord in Matthew 7:22 should have faith in Jesus & yet they will be rejected in the last day (Matthew 7:23). The only reason that could explain why Jesus would comment to them that He does not know them is they are not God’s people since there is no indwelling of the Holy Spirit in them. For Romans 8:9, “(mentions that) …if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.” Praying sinner’s prayer provides a way out for a non-Christian since it directs him to ask Jesus to receive Him to be his personal saviour so as to secure himself with salvation. Nobody in this world could proclaim they have the right for the receipt of the Holy Spirit since all of them are sinners. It is by God’s grace that He has given them the Holy Spirit when they pray sinner’s prayer. Salvation is not of the work of faith or repentance of sin or obedience of law that anyone could boast but the result of the free gift of God through the indwelling of the Spirit of Christ in him to cause him to be saved. Thus, salvation is purely the work of God’s grace.

    Let’s provide a truth from the scripture to substantiate that believing in Jesus might not necessarily be accompanied by the receipt of the Holy Spirit as follows: Judas Iscariot was one of the twelve disciples as mentioned in Matthew 10:4. He was one of the twelve to be appointed by Jesus to preach the Gospel and not only that he was commanded to perform miraculous healing as mentioned in Matthew 10:5-8 (KJV), “These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying,…go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand. Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.” The scripture mentions that he was one of the twelve apostles bearing a distinctive and respectable title, apostle, in Matthew 10:2. Jesus Christ even called him to be one of the sheep and warned him about the possible persecution that he might be confronted with as mentioned in Matthew 10:16-17, “Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves:…But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues:” This man, Judas Iscariot, definitely had faith in Jesus. Or else, Jesus would not delegate miracles healing to him for him to perform or even to call him to be an apostle since Mark 6:5-6, “(mention that) he could there do no mighty work…because of their unbelief.” The possible reason for Jesus not to perform miracle or less miracle was He might want to draw attention to the audience that faith was significant factor for healing mission work. Or else, it would seem weird that miracle could be performed even though nobody believed in Him. Thus, Judas Iscariot should have faith in Jesus being an apostle. One of the reason why he betrayed Jesus was Satan entered into Judas’s body to cause him to fall as mentioned in Luke 22:3, “(that) Then entered Satan unto Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.” The same is mentioned in John 13:2, “(that)…the devil having now put into the heart of Judas Iscariot, Simon’s son, to betray him:” The reason why Satan could enter into the heart of Judas to cause him to fall was the absence of the Holy Spirit in him since John 16:7, “(mentions that) Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.” As the phrase, if I go not away, is mentioned in John 16:7 with the phrase, the Comforter will not come unto you, it implies that Judas should not have received the Holy Spirit while Jesus was with him. At the absence of the Holy Spirit among the disciples prior to the departure of Jesus for His resurrection, Judas was possessed by Satan. The same was for Peter, at the absence of the Holy Spirit, to be influenced by Satan as mentioned in Mark 8:33, “(that)…he rebuked Peter, saying, Get thee behind me, Satan: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but the things that be of men.” What sin did Judas commit? He betrayed Jesus as a result of his covetousness of thirty pieces of silver since Matthew 26:14-15, “(mention that)…Judas Iscariot, went unto the chief priests. And said unto them, What will ye give me, and I will deliver him unto you? And they covenanted with him for thirty pieces of silver.” After committing the sin of covetousness, did he repent from his sin? Yes, he did repent from his sin due to Matthew 27:3-4, “(mentions that) Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders, Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood. And they said, What is that to us? See thou to that.” Did he regret for the guilt that he had committed? Yes, he did regret for the guilt that he had committed since Matthew 27:5, “(mentions that) And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself.” Was Judas Iscariot saved? No, he was not saved since Matthew 26:24, “(mentions that) The Son of man goeth as it is written of him: but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! It had been good for that man if he had not been born.”; Mark 14:21, “The Son of man indeed goeth, as it is written of him: but woe to that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! Good were it for that man if he had never been born.” The same is mentioned in John 21:20, “Then Peter, turning about, seeth the disciple whom Jesus loved following; which also leaned on his breast at supper, and said, Lord, which is he that betrayeth thee?” John 21:22-23, “Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry will I come, what is that to thee? Follow thou me. Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee?” Even though the phrase, that disciple should not die, is mentioned in John 21:23, yet the subsequent phrase, Jesus said not unto him He shall not die, implies Judas Iscariot might not be saved even though he did repent from sin in Matthew 27:3-4. Sad to say his position to be one of the twelve disciples had been taken over by Matthias since Acts 1:26, “(mentions that) And they gave forth their lots, and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.” For instance, if believing in Jesus and repentance of sin would cause the immediate granting of the Holy Spirit, Judas Iscariot should have been saved since he was one of the apostles and should have faith in Jesus in performing miracles. Yet in reality, his salvation was uncertain. Why should Judas Iscariot not be saved even though he was one of the apostles? What was the deficiency of Judas Iscariot? The only deficiency was he did not confess his sin before the Lord to pray for the receipt of Jesus to be his personal Saviour. Should we then presume ourselves to have received the Holy Spirit with the ignorance of whether we have that Holy Spirit or not and be turned up to be like Judas Iscariot and be rejected ultimately?

    Does John 16:7 contradict against Luke 1:41 & 67? Let’s meditate John 16:7 as follows: John 16:7 (King James Version), “Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.” What is this Comforter? The Comforter here refers inevitably the Spirit of Christ or the Spirit of Jesus Christ since Romans 8:9, “(mentions that)…if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.” As Romans 8:9 mentions that it should be the Spirit of Jesus Christ, the Spirit should come from Jesus Christ. It is by His resurrection that the people could turn up to be Christians and be saved. As His resurrection is crucial for the salvation for His disciples, He only granted His Spirit among His disciples after His resurrection on the cross of Calvary as mentioned in John 16:7. Despite Jesus Christ mentions that His Spirit could be granted to His disciples in John 16:7, why should Luke 1:41 & 67 mention other people were still filled the Holy Spirit? One possibility is God are in Trinity and there are Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit and God. Even though Jesus Christ as God was with the disciples, God, in another person, filled those people as mentioned in Luke 1:41 & 67. The same is mentioned in Matthew 3:17, “(that) And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” In this event, God in another person spoke from heaven while Jesus Christ as God was on earth receiving baptism after John the Baptist and Matthew 3:16, “…saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:”

    How did the twelve disciples turn up to have the power to perform miraculous signs? Matthew 10:1, “(mentions that)…he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.” Or in other words, the reason for the twelve to be granted with the capability to perform miraculous signs was Jesus Christ gave them power instead of giving them His Spirit or God’s Spirit to enable them to be able to do it. The same is mentioned in Luke 9:1, “(that) Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases.” The same is in Mark 3:14-15, “(that)…he ordained twelve…And to have power to heal sicknesses, and to cast out devils:” From the above extracts, it would come to the conclusion that Jesus Christ could grant power to a person to perform miracles without giving the Spirit to them and this made it possible for Jesus to mention John 16:7 to His disciples even though they could perform miraculous healing.

    As faith might not necessarily be accompanied with the receipt of the Holy Spirit, sinner’s prayer provides a way for a person to pray to receive Jesus Christ to be his or her Personal Saviour to ensure his or her eternal security in order to prevent the possibility to be rejected by the LORD as spelt out in Matthew 7:21-22.

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12. 6) Any sign to identify whether a person is born again

    Is it rational to use to fruits of a person to determine whether he could be born again? No doubt a person could bear fruit when He abides in Jesus as mentioned in John 15:5, the scripture never mention that he or she must demonstrate his or her fruit outwardly and failure to manifest his or her fruit would cause himself or herself to be disqualified to be a Christian. Besides, Paul did mention that he did struggle himself whether to do good or evil and yet he did those things that he ought not to do since Romans 7:15, “(mentions that) For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not, but what I hate, that do I.” Could we, Christians, then condemn Paul not to be a Christian just because he sinned against God often? No, it should not be so since we must not use fruits as a yardstick to disqualify him to be a Christian. Nobody is perfect and everybody tends to commit sins in a certain way. It is irrational to condemn a person not to be a Christian just because he sins often. Who know, he or she has a repentant heart and wishes to avoid sin and yet he or she falls into sin each time when temptation comes due to he or she is weak to control himself or herself. If a person abounds in sin, though he or she has a repentant heart each time, he or she is too weak to control himself or herself so much so that the good work that he intends to do and yet he does not do it and yet for evil, he does it abundantly, could we then condemn him or her not to be a Christian just because he or she abounds in sin? No, it should not be the case since salvation is by faith in Jesus and it is not by the number of sins that he or she has or why so few good work that he or she has performed in the past to disqualify him or her to be a Christian. If salvation is by the measurement of good work, it is then rational to disqualify a person not to be a Christian simply due to he or she does not perform any good work. Thus, it is not justified for a person to condemn a person, who has prayed sinner’s prayer and not to show good work or to show only a few good work outwardly, not to be a Christian. Besides, there is no reason to condemn a person who intends to do good work and yet he or she is too weak to control himself or herself, when temptation comes, and turns up that the good work he or she intends to do and yet does not do it.

    Refer to clause 14) under the subtitle, Could Christians lose salvation, as mentioned near the end of these messages, Hebrews 3:12-15 give the implication that God would depart from a Christian. Even though John 15 mentions that a Christian would bear good fruit, none of the verses do mention that he would lose all the good fruits that he has borne with Jesus previously after God has departed from him. Not only that, John 15:16, “(even mentions that) ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain…” This verse implies that the fruit will remain in a person without vanishing by itself. Thus, the good fruits, that a person who has yielded prior to God departing from him, might retain in him and to show a false view that he could be a Christian despite God might have departed in him in Hebrews 3:12-15. Thus, it is hard to use the number of good fruits that a person has to determine whether he is a Christian.

    1 Corinthians 12:3, “Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God called Jesus accursed: & that no man can say that Jesus is Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.” Could we use this verse to support that those people who call Jesus to be their Lord could have received eternal lives? No, it is not true since Matthew 7:22-23, “(mention that) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, …& then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.” As Jesus would mention to them who have called Jesus to be their Lord Matthew 7:23, “I never knew you”, it implies that they do not belong to God. Romans 8:9, “(gives the possible reason why they could not belong to God is they do not have the Spirit of Christ in them since It mentions that) …if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.” The phrase, by the Holy Ghost, in 1 Corinthians 12:3 might possibly be interpreted as the Holy Spirit is outside their bodies to stimulate them to call Jesus as Lord instead of being interpreted as the indwelling of the Holy Spirit to cause them to acknowledge Jesus to be their Lord. If that is so, it is irrational to use 1 Corinthians 12:3 to conclude that all the people who proclaim Jesus to be the Lord to be God’s saints. Or else, all the people in Matthew 7:22-23 should be considered God’s saints and yet are rejected by God.

    Should Romans 10:13, “(be used to support that anybody who calls the name of the Lord could be saved since it mentions that) …whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.”? How about Acts 2:21, “…that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.” We must not use these verses to conclude it without reading other verses in the scripture since Matthew 7:21, “(mentions that) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven.” As the phrase, Not every one…saith unto me Lord, is mentioned in Matthew 7:21 with the phrase, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven, it implies that calling the name of the Lord might not be saved.

    7) Water baptism

    Mark 16:16, “He that believeth & is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. (KJV)” Could we use Mark 16:16 to support that water baptism could save a person? Let’s meditate Acts 19:2-6. Acts 19:2-6, “He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? & they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. & he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? & they said, Unto John’s baptism.” From the above event, did they receive the Holy Spirit after John or water baptism (Acts 19:3)? No, they did not receive it since they only received it in Acts 19:6. Did they receive the Holy Spirit when Acts 19:5, “they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus”? No, they did not receive the Holy Spirit even though they were baptized in Jesus’ name. They only received the Holy Spirit Acts 19:6, “…when Paul had laid his hands upon them, (since it mentions that after he laid hands upon them), the Holy Ghost came on them…” As the Holy Spirit did not come upon them after John’s or water baptism (Acts 19:3) or baptism (Acts 19:5), it proves that water baptism could not save a person. There is no scriptural verse to support that God would grant the Holy Spirit at the time of laying hands except Acts 19:6. What If laying hands might not necessarily be accompanied with the receipt of the Holy Spirit & that only Acts 19:6 is the exception due to other reason, those people, who rely on laying hands to receive the Holy Spirit, might not be saved as a result of the Spirit does not come to them.

    8) Miraculous performance

    Is it true that those Charismatic people who could perform miracles in Jesus’ name belong to God? Matthew 7:22-23, “Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? & in thy name have cast out devils? & in thy name done many wonderful works? & then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.” As the phrase, in thy name done many wonderful works, is mentioned in Matthew 7:22-23 with the phrase, I never knew you, it implies that Charismatic people could not proclaim to belong to God as a result of their miraculous work performed in Jesus’ name.

    Besides, the twelve disciples were granted the capability to perform miraculous healing (Matthew 10:1) at the absence of the Holy Spirit within their bodies since John 16:7, “(mentions that)…if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.” It refutes the teaching that a person must be filled with the Holy Spirit in order to perform wonders. Instead, he or she could perform wonder if God grants him or her the capability without indwelling upon them.

    Evil spirits could perform miracles. The following are the extracts: Matthew 24:24, “For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.”; 2 Thessalonians 2:9-10, “Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.”; Revelation 13:14, “And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast;…”

    Does John 20:22 contradict against John 16:7 since Jesus was still with the disciple in John 20:22? No, it might not contradict with each other if the phrase, if I depart, should refer to His crucifixion upon the cross of Calvary. Or in other words, the Holy Spirit would come and dwell among His disciples only after His crucifixion on the cross of Calvary.

    What if the contemporary Charismatic people are dealing with evil spirit, the following verses give the warning:

    Leviticus 20:6, “And the soul that turneth after such as have familiar spirits, and after wizards, to go a whoring after them, I will even set my face against that soul, and will cut him off from among his people.”; Leviticus 20:27, “A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death…”; Deuteronomy 18:10-12, “There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch, Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirit, or a wizard with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer. For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.”; Leviticus 19:31, “Regard not them that have familiar spirits, neither seek after wizards, to be defiled by them: I am the LORD your God.”

    Could a name be blotted out from the book of life? Exodus 32:33, “And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against him, him will I blot out of my book.” Deuteronomy 9:7, “…thou provokedst the LORD to wrath in the wilderness:…ye have been rebellious against the LORD.” Deuteronomy 9:13-14, “…the LORD spake unto me, I have seen this people, and, behold, it is a stiffnecked people: Let me alone, that I may destroy them, and blot out their name from under heaven:…” Deuteronomy 8:20, “As the nations which the LORD destroyed before your face, so shall ye perish; because ye would not be obedient unto the voice of the LORD your God.”

    9) Tongue speaking

    Is tongue speaking a sign of the receipt of the Holy Spirit? No, it is not true that tongue speaking is a sign of the receipt of the Holy Spirit since the disciples received the Holy Spirit prior to the Pentecost as mentioned in John 20:22, “(that)…When he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:” and yet there was no sign of tongue speaking or even prophesying on all the disciples. There are many verses in the Old Testament which show no show of tongues speaking or even prophesying when the people were filled with the Spirit: Exodus 28:3, “…all that are wise hearted, whom I have filled with the spirit of wisdom…”; Exodus 31:3, “…I have filled him with the spirit of God, in wisdom…”; Exodus 35:31, “…he hath filled him with the spirit of God…in all manner of workmanship;”; the spirit of God in Moses did not perform tongue speaking and prophesying and yet Number 11:25, “…the LORD…took of the spirit that was upon him, and gave it unto the seventy elders…the spirit rested upon them, they prophesied…”; Judge 6:34, “…the Spirit of the LORD came upon Gideon, and he blew a trumpet…”; Judge 11:29, “…the Spirit of the LORD came upon Jephthah…”; Judge 14:19, “…the Spirit of the LORD came upon him…”; 1 Samuel 11:6, “…the Spirit of God came upon Saul…”; 2 Chronicles 15:1-2, “…the Spirit of God came upon Azariah the son of Oded: And he went out to meet Asa…”; 2 Chronicles 24:20, “And the Spirit of God came upon Zechariah…which stood above the people, and said…”; Job 27:3, “…the spirit of God is in my nostrils;” From the above extracts, it is obvious that a person who is filled with the Spirit of God might not perform wonders.

    In Acts 2:4, the people immediately spoke in tongue when they were filled with the Holy Ghost and yet in contemporary churches, the people have to repeat few words, such as, praising the Lord, praising the Lord, in numerous times then run out so-called, tongues.

    Tongues are languages (Acts 2:8-11).

    It is a commandment from God for those who pray in tongues pray that they may interpret and sing in tongue and sing with understanding. The following are the extracts: 1 Corinthians 14:13-15, “Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret….I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.” 1 Corinthians 14:28, “But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church…” 1 Corinthians 14:37, “(mentions that) If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.” Yet the people in contemporary Charismatic churches disobey God’s commandment in 1 Corinthians 14:13-15 & 28 to pray or sing in so-called, tongues, without understanding and making the entire churches into chaos.

    10) Prophesying

    God’s commandment for prophesying is to be meant to edify a church instead of for individual edification since 1 Corinthians 14:4, “(mentions that)…he that prophesieth edifieth the church.” Yet in contemporary churches, prophesying is meant for from one person to another person’s edification instead of benefiting the entire church.

    Besides, the following are the commandments that have been set by God: 1 Corinthians 14:31-32, “For ye may all prophesy one by one,…And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.”

    All the above verses are the commandments of the Lord since 1 Corinthians 14:37, “(mentions that) If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.”

    11) Idolatry worshipping

    Should rosaries, Mary statutes and relics be used in a church as a visual aids for worship?

    Leviticus 26:1, “Ye shall make no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the LORD your God.”

    2 Kings 18:3-4, “…he did that which was right in the sight of the LORD, according to all that David his father did. He removed the high places, and brake the images, and cut down the groves, and brake in pieces the brazen serpent that Moses had made:…” For instance, if relics should be used as a visual aids for worship, there is no reason why the phrase, he did that which was right in the sight of the LORD, be mentioned in 2 Kings 18:3-4 when he broke the brazen serpent that Moses made.

    Altars could be used as a visual aids for worship and yet the following extracted verses mention that they were destroyed. Exodus 34:13, “But ye shall destroy their altars, break their images, and cut down their groves: For thou shalt worship no other god:…”: Deuteronomy 7:5, “…ye shall destroy their altars, and break down their images, and cut down their groves, and burn their graven images with fire.”; Deuteronomy 12:3, “…ye shall overthrow their altars, and break their pillars, and burn their groves with fire; and ye shall hew down the graven images of their gods, and destroy the name of them out of that place.”

    Pictures could also be used as a visual aids worship and yet the following verse mention that they were destroyed. Number 33:52, “…destroy all their pictures, and destroy all their molten images, and quite pluck down all their high places:”

    The verses below give warning about idolatry worshipping: Exodus 32:31, “…this people hath sinned a great sin, and have made them gods of gold.” Exodus 32:33, “And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.” The phrase, my book, in Exodus 32:33 undoubtedly refers to the book of life. The same is mentioned also in Deuteronomy 29. The following are the extracts: Deuteronomy 29:18, “Lest there should be among you man, or woman, or family, or tribe, whose heart turneth away this day from the LORD our God, to go and serve the gods of these nations…” Deuteronomy 29:20, “The LORD will not spare him, but then the anger of the LORD and his jealousy shall smoke against that man, and all the curses that are written in this book shall lie upon him, and the LORD shall blot out his name from under heaven.”

    Deuteronomy 7:26 named the graven or molten image to be an abomination unto the Lord. The following is the extract: Deuteronomy 27:15, “Cursed be the man that maketh any graven or molten image, an abomination unto the LORD, the work of the hands of the craftsman, and putteth it in a secret place…” Deuteronomy 7:26 even forbids them to be brought into our home. Could Mary statutes, relics and rosaries be permitted to bring into the Lord’s house then? Deuteronomy 7:26, “Neither shalt thou bring an abomination into thine house, lest thou be a cursed like it: but thou shalt utterly detest it, and thou shalt utterly abhor it; for it is a cursed thing.” The same is mentioned in Joshua 7:12, “…they were accursed: neither will I be with you any more, except ye destroy the accursed from among you.”

    Could the saints treat the blood in Eucharist as the real blood of Jesus and the bread as the real flesh of Jesus making them as if they are really God’s body then? Is this act to be considered as idolatry? Should we then treat Christian ceremony as symbolism instead of real representation? Could we draw invisible crosses from foreheads to chests & from shoulders to shoulders and be saved? Bear in mind the invisible crosses have been formed invisible graven images.

    12) Sinner’s prayer

    Some churches mention that sinner’s prayer is not feasible due to they mention that none of the people who are saved in the book of Acts are as a result of praying sinner’s prayer. Let’s meditate all the events as below individually:

    a) Acts 8:12-19 (King James Version), “…when they believed Philip preaching thing things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized,…Samaria had received the word of God…they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost…Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost…” The phrase, the Holy Ghost, in Acts 8:15 should undoubtedly refer to the Spirit of Christ since Romans 8:9, “(mentions that)…if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.” Thus, the phrase, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Ghost, in Acts 8:15 should be interpreted as they are called to pray for the receipt of the Spirit of Jesus Christ into their bodies since the so-called, Holy Ghost, in Acts 8:15 refers inevitably to the Spirit of Jesus Christ. As they prayed to receive the Spirit of Christ into their bodies, it indirectly implies that they prayed to receive Jesus Christ to be their Personal Saviour. Or in other words, they did pray to call Jesus Christ to come into their heart. From the above extracts, word to word interpretation would bring to the conclusion that they were converted to Christians due to they believed the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ and this had been accompanied with praying to receive Jesus Christ to be their Personal Saviour. The entire verse certainly opposes against a falsified view that has been established by some Christian organisations have that Christians must not ask Jesus to come into their heart. Other than the verse as indicates the praying of the receipt of Jesus Christ, none of the verses do mention that Philip did preach the resurrection of Jesus. Besides, none of the verses in Acts 8:12-19 do mention they did confess their sins to God or even to repent from their sin. Could we then condemn the knowledge of the resurrection of Jesus is not necessary to save a sinner and repentance and confession of sin should not be practised among the sinners since no way these could be found in Acts 8:12-19? As proven in previous pages that repentance & confession of sin and the knowledge of the resurrection of Jesus are significant for salvation even though none of them are mentioned among these verses. Thus, it is irrational to conclude the preaching of the resurrection of Jesus and the repentance and confession of sin are not necessary just because none of them are mentioned in Acts 8:12-19. These prove that repentance and confession of sin as well as praying for the receipt of Jesus Christ to be Personal Saviour should coexist in order to establish salvation.

    Besides, the evidence about Judas Iscariot as mentioned earlier has been used to be proven that believing in Jesus might not be accompanied with the receipt of the Spirit of Jesus Christ. Those people who fail to pray to receive Him to be their Personal Saviour might have missed their salvation what if the Spirit of Christ is not in him since Romans 8:9, “(mentions vividly that)…if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.”

    Hebrews 3:12-15 that have been brought out with detailed analyses under clause 14) below show the possibility that God would depart a Christian if he has forsaken his faith in Jesus. As explained under clause 14) at the end of these messages, the reason to arrive at this conclusion is it is hard to reconcile Hebrews 3:12-15 with the assumption that Christians would never lose salvation. Yet the reversed opinion is possible, it is easier to reconcile it with Hebrews 3:12-15 with the assumption that Christians would lose salvation. If that could be so, people should confess their sin before God and should ask to receive Jesus to be their Saviour if they have committed unbelieving heart in questioning the truthfulness of the scripture, especially some might question whether God really created the world within six days.

    b) Acts 9:37-38, “And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.” From the above event, word-to-word interpretation will give the explanation that he was saved through simply believing in Jesus Christ as the Son of God. Could we then condemn the knowledge of resurrection of Jesus could not save a person since Acts 8:12-19 and Acts 9:37-38 agree the same that none of them were preached with the knowledge of the resurrection of Jesus? Could we then condemn repentance and confession of sin is not necessary to save a soul since none of them mention it. Likewise, it is hard to condemn praying to receive the Spirit of Christ is not necessary just because Acts 9:37-38 do not mention it.

    c) Acts 10:36-44, “The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ:…Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly:…through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins….the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.” No doubt Acts 10:36-44 mention the preaching of the resurrection of Jesus, yet nothing is mentioned about repentance and confession of sin. The phrase, whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins, in Acts 10:36-44 might imply that a persons who believes in Jesus would be granted with remission of sins without his confession to God. However, the teaching does contradict 1 John 1:*since a non-Christian who insists he is perfect before God without sin would not have his sin be cleansed. 1 John 1:8, “If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.” As the phrase, If we say that we have no sin, is mentioned in 1 John 1:8 with the phrase, the truth is not in us, it implies that he who has declared perfect before God without sin would not have the truth in him. As the truth is not in him when he declared perfect before God without sin, how could he be saved then? Thus, even though Acts 10:36-44 do not mention about confession of sin, he should have admitted he is a sinner even though nothing is mentioned about it among these verses. Likewise, it is hard to condemn praying to receive the Spirit of Christ is not necessary just because Acts 8:12-19 do not mention it.

    d) Acts 11:14-15, “Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved. And I baptize to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.” The same is for Acts 16:31-33, “And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. And he took them the same hour of the night, ….and baptized, he and all his, straightway.” The same is also in Acts 18:8, “(that) …Crispus, the chief rule of the synagogue, believed on the Lord with all his house; and many of the Corinthians hearing believed, and were baptized.” All the extracted verses above does not mention about the preaching of the resurrection of Jesus, repentance and confession of sin, could we jump into the conclusion that the knowledge of resurrection of Jesus could not save a person and not even repentance and confession of sin? Likewise, it is hard to condemn praying to receive the Spirit of Christ is not necessary just because Acts 8:12-19 do not mention it.

    e) Acts 19:1-6, “…Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed?…Then said Paul…that they should believe…Christ Jesus. When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus…when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them…” From the above extracts, it is obvious that Paul did convince them to believe in Jesus as mentioned in Acts 19:4. Other than the phrase, they heard this, in Acts 19:5, nothing is mentioned whether they did believe in Jesus. Could we then conclude that a person could be saved by simply hearing the Gospel without believing it. Besides, as nothing is mentioned in this verse whether they did acknowledge the resurrection of Jesus, should we then conclude that the resurrection of Jesus could not save a soul? Likewise, it is irrational to use these verses to condemn praying for the receipt of Jesus to be one’s Personal Saviour just because it does not mention it.

    Despite the term, sinner’s prayer, could never be found in the scripture, all the elements that have been adopted in practising the entire sinner’s prayer could be allocated from the scripture and these consist of repentance of sin; confession of sin before God for the forgiveness of sin and lastly praying for the receipt of Jesus Christ as one’s Personal Saviour. Some sinner’s prayers might include acknowledgement of the death and resurrection of Jesus. Indeed all the elements of sinner’s prayer could be located vividly in the extracted verses

    a) Repentance of sin: Acts 3:19, “Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.”; Acts 8:22, “Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.”

    b) Confession of sin: 1 John 1:9, “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.”

    c) Praying to receive Jesus as our Personal Savour: John 4:10, “Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink, thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.” What is this living water as mentioned in John 4:10? John 4:14, “But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.” The so-called, living water, as mentioned in John 4:14 should undoubtedly refer to the Spirit of Christ since Romans 8:9, “(mentions that)…if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.” The phrase, the Spirit of Christ, in Romans 8:9 should refer to the Spirit that comes from Jesus Christ. As the phrase, thou wouldest have asked of him, is mentioned in John 4:10 with the phrase, living water, and that living water should refer to the Spirit of Christ, the entire verse indirectly demands that Samarian to request for the receipt of the Spirit of Jesus Christ. Or in other words, the entire verse indirectly had directed that Samarian to ask the Spirit of Jesus to come into his heart to be her Personal Saviour. The same is mentioned in Acts 5:15, “Who when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:” and Luke 11:13, “…how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?” The so called, the Holy Ghost, and the Holy Spirit, in Acts 5:15 & Luke 11:13 respectively refer inevitably to the Spirit of Christ. Thus, all these verses support the same that they request the people to ask for the receipt of Jesus Christ to be their Personal Saviour. Criticism against praying for the receipt of Jesus Christ is not acceptable from scriptural point of view.

    d) The scripture does call the people to ask for salvation: Philippians 1:19, “for I know that this shall turn to my salvation through your prayer, and the supply of the Spirit of the Spirit of Jesus Christ”; 1 John 5:16, “If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death…”

    13) Were those people in the Gospels saved?

    Should a woman in Matthew 9:22, Mark 5:34 & Luke 8:48 be treated as receiving eternal life prior to Jesus’ death since He called her to be His daughter? How about a man in Matthew 9:2 & Mark 2:5. It is irrational to assume that both of them did receive Romans 8:9, “…the Spirit of Christ…” since John 16:7, “(mentions that)…It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.” As Jesus Christ was on earth when He delivered His speech in Matthew 9:2, 22, Mark 2:5, 5:34, and Luke 8:48, the Spirit of Christ should not have come to the disciples. Besides, salvation has to be dealt with the resurrection of Jesus and He had not yet been resurrected during His speech with His disciples among these verses. At the absence of the Holy Spirit prior to the departure of Jesus, they should not be considered as the children of God since Romans 8:9, “(mentions that)…if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.” Thus, it is hard to jump into the conclusion that they were saved prior to the receipt of the Holy Spirit due to the verse in Romans 8:9. The possible reason for Jesus to call him and her to be His son and daughter prior to their receipt of the Holy Spirit could be merely He was the creator of him and her while he and she were in her mother’s womb. Or in other words, God could call him and her to be the son and daughter physically instead of spiritually since He created them by Himself despite there was no indwelling of the Holy Spirit among them.

    The word, save, might be used in the four gospels as merely the forgiveness of past sin that they had committed so that they would not be judged for the past sin that they had committed instead of referring it to they would have a place in heaven eternally. The following are the extracts: Matthew 1:21, “& she shall bring forth a son, & shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.”; Luke 7:48, “& he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven.”; Luke 7:50, “& he said to this woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.” Note: Jesus told that woman in Luke 7:50 that her faith had saved her from punishment of her past sin. How about future sin that she could be judged between the time her sin be forgiven by Jesus & the time of her death. Nothing is mentioned she had obtained eternal life other than she had been saved from the punishment of her past sin, instead of future sin, through Jesus’ forgiveness of sin.

    The word, save, in the four gospels might be used in the four gospels to be interpreted as rescuing a person from his physical illnesses or death while on earth instead of being interpreted as obtaining eternal life. The following are the extracts: Matthew 8:25, “& his disciples came to him, & awoke him, saying, Lord, save: we perish.”; Matthew 14:30, “But when he saw the wind boisterous, he was afraid; & beginning to sink, he cried, saying, Lord, save me.”; Mark 3:4, “& he saith unto them, Is it lawful to do good on the Sabbath days, or to do evil? To save life, or to kill? But they held their peace.”

    Besides, Matthew 19:25-26 do not mention that the disciples had received immediate eternal life during their speech with Jesus prior to their receipt of the Holy Spirit. The following are the extracts: Matthew 19:25-26, “When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved. But Jesus beheld them, & said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.” When Peter enquired Jesus Matthew 19:27, “…we have forsaken all, & followed thee; what shall we have therefore?”, Matthew 19:28-29, “Jesus said unto them, …ye which have followed me…shall sit in the throne of his glory… & every one that hath forsaken houses, …for my name’s sake, …shall inherit everlasting life.” The phrases, shall inherit everlasting life, &, shall sit in the throne of his glory, in Matthew 19:28-29 in future tense imply the disciples did not inherit everlasting life while Jesus was having His speech with them in Matthew 19:28-29. They should have received the everlasting life after the death of Jesus since the Holy Spirit could only come to them after Jesus’ departure as mentioned in John 16:7.

    Should Luke 23:39, “one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him” be treated as a saint of God when Luke 23:43, “Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.” As John 16:7, “(mentions that) if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you…”, it implies that the thief as mentioned in Luke 23:43 should not have received the Holy Spirit since Jesus had not died or had not departed from this world. As the thief was not granted with the Holy Spirit, he was none of His (Romans 8:9). Unless Luke 23:43, “(has been changed as) …To day shalt (Jesus be in you or the Holy Spirit be in you)”, it would then be justified that the thief had received the Holy Spirit when Jesus was having His dialogue with him in Luke 23:43. Despite nothing is mentioned that the thief belonged to Christ or he was filled with the Holy Spirit in Luke 23:43 since Jesus had not departed from the world during His dialogue with him (John 16:7), Jesus promised him to go side by side Luke 23:43, “(with) me (to) paradise (KJV).” Does Luke 23:43 imply that he was granted with eternal life since it is mentioned that he could be in paradise with him? It is hard to conclude it since Ecclessiastes 12:7 mentions that every spirit returns to God. The following is the extract: Ecclessiates 12:7, “Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: & the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.” If the word, return, in Luke 23:43 implies temporary dwelling at paradise to be waiting for God’s judgment in the last day so as to decide what his final destiny should be, either to eternal condemnation or to everlasting living with God, Luke 23:43 could not be used to support that the thief could be saved with everlasting life since every spirit would return God (Eccl 12:7).

    Nevertheless, it is irrational to extract any event from the four gospels prior to the death of Jesus to support that people could belong to God at the absence of the receipt of the Holy Spirit prior to the death of Jesus to counteract Romans 8:9, “(that mentions that) …if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.”

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13. 14) Could salvation be lost?

    Could a Christian lose his or her salvation? If we would assume that a Christian could never lose his or her salvation, how could it be possible for Hebrews 3:10-12 to mention that God would depart from a person as a result of his or her unbelieving heart since Hebrews 3:10-12 (King James Version), “(mention that)…Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.”?

    Yet, it is possible to reconcile Hebrews 3:12-15 with all the verses in the scripture with the assumption that a Christian could turn up to have God to be departed from him or her due to his or her unbelief lately. The following are the elaborations:

    Let’s meditate the entire verses in Hebrews 3:10-12 as below:

    Hebrews 3:10-12 (King James Version), “(mention that) Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do always err in their heart; and they have not known my ways. So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.) Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.

    The word, brethren, in Hebrews 3:12 gives a certainty that it refers to any Christian. As the phrase, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, is mentioned in Hebrews 3: 12 with the phrase, departing from the living God, it implies that God would depart from a Christian due to his evil heart of unbelief. Once God has departed from a Christian, he no longer belongs to God since Romans 8:9, “…if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.” The same is mentioned in 1 John 5:12, “He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.” The same is also mentioned in John 3:36, “…he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.” Let’s browse through other versions of this verse as follows:

    Hebrews 3:12 (Young’s Literal Translation), “See, BRETHREN, lest there shall be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in the FALLING AWAY FROM THE LIVING GOD.”

    Hebrews 3:12 (Webster’s Bible Translation), “Take heed, BRETHREN, lest there in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in DEPARTING FROM THE LIVING GOD.”

    Hebrews 3:12 (Darby Bible Translation), “See, BRETHREN, lest there be in any one of you a wicked heart of unbelief, in TURNING AWAY FROM [THE] LIVING GOD.”

    Hebrews 3:12 (International Standard Version), “See to it, MY BROTHERS, that no evil, unbelieving heart is found in any of you, as shown by YOUR TURNING AWAY FROM THE LIVING GOD.”

    The word, brethren, and the phrase, my brothers, have consistently been mentioned in other versions imply Hebrews 3:12 is meant solely for the advice among Christians. The phrase, See to it, in Hebrews 3:12 (international Standard Version) implies ensuring. As the phrase, See to it, is mentioned in Hebrews 3:12 with the phrase, no evil unbelieving heart is found in any of you, it implies that each Christian has to ensure that there should not be any unbelieving heart in him or her. The phrases, falling away from the living God, departing from the living God, and, your turning away from the living God, in Young’s Literal Translation, Webster’s Bible Translation, and International Standard Version respectively, give the same implication that a Christian could depart from God. As a Christian could depart from God, it implies God could leave him or her on the condition of unbelieving heart.

    Hebrews 3:15 (King James Version), “While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation…And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not? So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.”

    The word, they, in Hebrews 3:15 certainly refers to the word, brethren, in Hebrews 3:12. What is the implication of Hebrews 3:15 when it mentions they should not enter into his rest? 1 Chronicles 23:25 refers the resting place to be in Jerusalem since 1 Chronicles 23:25, “(mentions that) For David said, the LORD God of Israel hath given rest unto his people, that they may dwell in Jerusalem for ever.” As the phrase, Jerusalem, is mentioned in 1 Chronicles 23:25 with the phrase, they may dwell…forever, it should refer to new Jerusalem as mentioned in Revelation 21:2 instead of the current Jerusalem on this old earth since this should be the place where the saints could dwell forever. The same is mentioned in Isaiah 33:20 to refer Jerusalem to be a place for a quiet and resting habitation. The following is the extract: Isaiah 33:20, “…thine eyes shall see Jerusalem a quiet habitation, a tabernacle that shall not be taken down; not one of the stakes thereof shall ever be moved, neither shall any of the cords thereof be broken.” As the phrases, shall not be taken down, and, shall ever be moved, are mentioned in Isaiah 33:20 with the word, Jerusalem, it should inevitably refer to the same new Jerusalem since this should be the one will never be destroyed or be taken down or be moved. Thus, the phrase, they should not enter into his rest, in Hebrews 3:15 implies that these people could never enter into new Jerusalem. As the word, they, in Hebrews 3:15 should refer to the phrase, any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in Hebrews 3:12, it implies that God who depart from Christians due to their unbelieving heart will never have the chance to the entry to new Jerusalem.

    Many scriptural verses that support eternal life is permanent contain the phrase, in Christ, and it gives a certainty that salvation is meant for those people in Christ instead of those do not have Christ in their bodies. The following are the extracts: Romans 8:1 (King James Version), “There is now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus…” Romans 8:38-39, “…neither death, nor life, nor angels….shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.” The phrase, in Christ, in Romans 8:1 and Romans 8:38-39 could not be applicable to Hebrews 3:12 due to Hebrews 3:12 is meant for the separation of Jesus Christ from a Christian and turns up that he or she no longer to be in Christ. Thus, the phrases, no condemnation, and, neither death…shall be able to separate us from the love of God, in Romans 8:1 and Romans 8:38-39 are merely applicable to those people in Christ instead of without Christ. Romans 8:34-35 would no longer be applicable to these people in Hebrews 3:12 since the love of Christ has left them even though the phrase, Who shall separate us from the love of Christ, is mentioned in Romans 8:35. As long as Christ dwells among Christians, nothing could separate them from the love of Christ when He dwells in them. The situation is entirely different now that Jesus Christ has departed from them due to their unbelief and has caused the love of Christ to depart too. No doubt 1 Corinthians 3:12-15, “(might seem to imply God would not depart from Christians since these verses mention that) if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious…If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.”, yet the phrase, foundation…is laid which is Jesus Christ, in 1 Corinthians 3:11 points to the fact of the permanent salvation could only be achieved when the person has his foundation to be laid upon Jesus Christ. It could not be applicable to Hebrews 3:12 due to Jesus Christ as God is no longer to be his or her foundation as a result of His departure from him or her.

    Some scriptural verses that support Christians could not lose their salvation contain the phrase, the grace of God. Once God has departed from those people as mentioned in Hebrews 3:12-15, the grace of God is no longer with them since God is not among them and it turns up that these verses could not be applicable to them. The following is the extract: 2 Peter 5:10, “But the God of all grace, who hath calleth us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.” As the phrase, God of all grace, is mentioned in 2 Peter 5:10 with the phrase, who hath calleth us unto his eternal glory, it implies God’s calling upon the saints to His eternal glory. The situation in Hebrews 3:12-15 varies since God no longer call them to be His eternal glory as a result of His departure from them. If God would be persistent in calling them to His eternal glory, there should not be any reason why He should depart from them.

    Does John 1:12 make Hebrews 3:12-15 to be ineffective as a Christian could turn up not to be the sons of God? Let’s meditate John 1:12 below: John 1:12, “But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name?” The word, believe, is mentioned in John 1:12 implies faith is the factor to cause the activation of salvation and yet those people in Hebrews 3:12-15 have turned up to have unbelieving heart and that their unbelieving heart has caused God to depart from them and turn up not to be the sons of God. Or in other words, these people are the sons of God as long as Christ is among them. John 1:12 would only be turned up to be effective only if Christ lives among them. The same is supported in 1 John 5:13, “(that) He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.”

    Does John 4:14 support that salvation is permanent? John 4:14, “But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water shall be in him as a wall of water springing up into everlasting life.” The phrase, the water shall be in him, in John 4:14 symbolises the receipt of the Holy Spirit. The verse could not be applicable to Hebrews 3:12-15 since Hebrews 3:12-15 is meant for the Holy Spirit as God to depart from these people due to their unbelief. At the absence of the Holy Spirit among these people, it is impossible for them to be able to spring up into everlasting life by themselves without the assistance of the Holy Spirit.

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14. Do John 6:37, 6:39, 6:44, 6:65, 8:35-36, 10:17-18, 10:28-29, 12:32 & 14:6 contradict against Hebrews 3:12-15? Let’s meditate all the verses below: John 6:37 (King James Version), “All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.”; John 6:39, “And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.”; John 6:44, “No man can come to me, except the Father hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.”; John 6:65, “…no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.”; John 8:35-36, “…but the Son abideth ever. If the Son therefore shalt make you free, ye shall be free indeed.”; John 10:17-18, “…I lay down my life, that I might take it again. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again…”; John 10:28-29, “And I give unto them eternal life, and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand…and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand.”; John 12:32, “…if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.” All the verses above have the common theme that Jesus would not cast out those people God gives Him. Despite the above verses mention Jesus would not cast out those people God gives Him, John 5:19, “(mentions also that)…The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.” As Jesus would follow whatever thing that God the Father does, It would turn up that Jesus would follow suit what God does in departing from a Christian as mentioned in Hebrews 3:12, “(that)…brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.” As Jesus would follow suit what God does in departing from a Christian, he or she would not be saved as a result of the departure of Jesus Christ from him or her. Thus, there is no contradiction among them since all these point to the fact that Jesus Christ would act accordingly to what God would respond to a Christian who has abandoned his or her faith as a result of unbelieving heart.

    John 15:4 would not be applicable to the people as mentioned in Hebrews 3:12 since Jesus Christ has departed from them. However, John 15:4 does not mention that these people in Hebrews 3:12 would have their fruits to disappear. Or in other words, they might remain those fruits that they previously have. Let’s examine John 15:4 as follows: John 15:4, “Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.” The phrase, the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, in John 15:4 to the people in Hebrews 3:12 should be interpreted as these people could no longer produce any further fruits. However, nothing is mentioned in John 15:4 that the existing fruit of these people would disappear themselves. Thus, they might remain the fruits that they initially have. If that could be so, it is irrational to use fruits to determine whether a person could be saved. As Jesus Christ has departed from these people as mentioned in Hebrews 3:12, John 15:6, “(mentions that) If ye abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.”

    Does 2 Corinthians 1:21-22 contradict against Hebrews 3:12-15? Let’s meditate the verses below: 2 Corinthians 1:21-22, “…God…hath…sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.” These verses could not be applicable to Hebrews 3:12-15 since Hebrews 3:12-15 mention that God has departed from the people. As God has departed from them, the Holy Spirit is no longer to be with them to guarantee what is to come.

    Does 1 John 4:13-17 contradict against Hebrews 3:12-15? 1 John 4:13, “…we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit…” The situation in Hebrews 3:12-15 is different since God no longer dwells in these people to cause them to be saved as a result of His departure.

    Does 1 John 5:18 contradict against Hebrews 3:12-15 since it mentions that a Christian sins not? Let’s meditate 1 John 5:18 below: 1 John 5:18, “…whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.” Does this phrase, whosoever is born of God sinneth not, in 1 John 5:18 imply that a Christian could never commit sin? No, it does not mean a Christian could never fall into sin since 1 John 5:16, “(mentions that) If any man see his brother sins a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death….” Let’s check on NIV how it translates this verse: 1 John 5:18, “We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the One who was born of God keeps them save, and the evil one cannot harm them.” From the comparison, it seems appropriate for the phrase, sinneth not, in King James Version to be interpreted as does not continue in sinning since 1 John 5:16 implies that a Christian would sin inevitably. The phrase, the wicked one toucheth him not, in 1 John 5:18 implies that a Christian could never be possessed by demons since the phrase, God keepeth himself, is mentioned in the same verse. The same is for 1 John 3:6, “Whoever abides in Him does not sin.” and 1 John 3:9, “Whoever has been born of God does not sin…and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.” Now, a question would ask whether a Christian could sin with unbelieving heart and turn up that God would depart from him or her as mentioned in Hebrews 3:12-15. 1 John 5:16 mentions that it is possible for a Christian to commit a sin that would possibly lead to spiritual death or the separation of God from him or her. The following is the extract: 1 John 5:16 (King James Version), “…There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.” As a Christian could commit a quilt that would lead to death as mentioned in 1 John 5:16, it is rational for him or her to commit a sin of unbelieving heart as mentioned in Hebrews 3:12-15 that would cause God to depart from him or her. As God depart from him or her, the phrases, God keepeth himself, and, that wicked one toucheth him not, in 1 John 5:18 would not be applicable to him or her. Thus, 1 John 5:16 does not contradict with Hebrews 3:12-15 since a Christian could not maintain his or her salvation once God has departed from him or her due to his or her unbelief.

    Does 1 John 5:16 support that a person who has the Holy Spirit been departed from him could not confess his sin before God and pray to receive Jesus Christ to be his personal Saviour again? Let’s meditate the verse below: 1 John 5:16, “If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.” As the phrase, If any man see his brother sin, is mentioned in 1 John 5:16 with the phrase, he shall pray for it, it implies that this man prays for his brother. However, nothing is mentioned in 1 John 5:16 to prevent his brother to pray for himself to receive Jesus to be his Personal Saviour. Thus, he could pray to receive Jesus Christ after his unbelieving heart. The same is mentioned in Hebrews 6:6, “If they shall fall way, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.”

    Does 1 John 3:24 contradict Hebrews 3:24? Let’s meditate 1 John 3:24 below: 1 John 3:24, “…he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.” Prior to tackling this question, let’s meditate 1 John 3:23 that precedes this verse as below: 1 John 3:23, “And this is his commandment, That should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.” As the phrase, believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, is mentioned in 1 John 3:23, it implies the significance to have faith in Jesus to be accompanied with obedience in Christ that would lead to the ultimate receipt of Jesus. Yet Hebrews 3:24 is meant for God departs from a person with unbelieving heart in Jesus. As both verses deal significance of the faith in Jesus, there is no variance between them.

    Does Jude 1:24 contradict against Hebrews 3:12-15? Let’s meditate the verse below: Jude 1:24, “Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,” This verse might not contradict against Hebrews 5:12-15 since Jude 1:20-21, “(have conveyed the message for a Christian to continue to uphold his or her faith in Jesus since it mentions that) But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith…Keep yourselves in the love of God…” in order that God in us could be Jude 1:24, “…able to keep you from falling…” The situation in Hebrews 3:12-15 is entirely different is that God has departed from a Christian due to his or her unbelieving. As a result of God’s departure, how God could continuously to be Jude 1:24, “…able to keep you from falling…” then.

    Do John 3:15-16, John 5:24, 6:40, 6:47, John 7:38, 11:25, 12:36, Galatians 2:16, Galatians 3:8-9 & 1 Peter 2:6 contradict against Hebrews 3:12-15? No, all these verses do not contradict against Hebrews 3:12-15 since all these verses support that salvation is by faith. As long as we maintain our faith in Christ, our salvation is permanent and could never be lost. Hebrews 3:12-15 are meant for those people with unbelief heart and this has caused the departure of God from them. As these people do not uphold their faith in God, they are no longer to be saved.

    Does the words, election, predestination, and, chosen, contradict Hebrews 3:12-15? No doubt many verses in the scripture do support that Christians are God’s chosen people (Romans 8:29-30, 33, 9:11, 11:5, 7, 28, 16:13, 1 Corinthians 1:27-28, Colossians 3:12, Ephesians 1:4-5, 1:11, 1 Thessalonians 1:4, 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14, 2 Timothy 1:9, 2:4, 10, James 2:5, Titus 1:1, 1 Peter 1:2, 1:10 & 2:9), many verses of the scripture do indicate those people who God predestinate to be their saints might turn up to have pulled out or reject their faith in Him and turn up not to be saved ultimately. The following are the elaborations:

    a) The scripture does mention each individual person could resist the Holy Ghost with stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears as mentioned in Acts 7:51. Let’s meditate Acts 7:51-52 (King James Version), “Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye. Which of the prophets have not your father persecuted? And they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:” The phrase, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost, in Acts 7:51 implies that the Holy Ghost did approach them to convince them to repent. If the Holy Ghost did not convince them for the repentance, there is no reason why the phrase, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost, be mentioned in Acts 7:51. Even though the Holy Ghost did approach them for repentance, yet they refused to repent since Acts 7:51, “(mentions that) Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your father did, so do ye.” These people not only insisted in resisting the Holy Ghost, they even persecuted the prophets since Acts 7:52, “(mentions that) Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? And they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:” From this event, it is rational to conclude that God might have chosen certain people and sending the Holy Ghost to convince them for repentance. Each of them has the responsibility to respond positively to the invitation instead of resisting it.

    b) The scripture supports that a person could grieve the holy Spirit of God to do adversely what He directs him or her to be. Let’s meditate the verse below: Ephesians 4:30, “…grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.” The phrase, grieve not the holy Spirit of God, in Ephesians 4:30 implies that a person could grieve the holy Spirit of God by not acting what the holy Spirit instructs him or her to do. Acts 5:3 even mentions that Ananias acted against the Holy Ghost since Acts 5:3, “(mentions that) But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?” The same is mentioned in 1 Timothy 5:12, “(that) having condemnation because they have cast off their first faith.”; 1 Timothy 5:15, “For some have already turned aside after Satan.”; 1 Timothy 6:10, “…some have strayed from the faith in their greediness, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.”; 1 Timothy 6:21, “…some have strayed concerning the faith.”

    c) The scripture supports that many people are called to be Christians and yet only a few of them are chosen to be the saints. Or in other words, all the saints are God’s chosen people and yet not all the people who God predestinates to call to be saints are Christians. For instance, if nobody could resist God’s calling to be saints, Matthew 22:16, “(should not mention)…many be called, but few chosen.” Instead, it should mention many are called and all of them are chosen. The word, called, in Matthew 22:16 implies God does call them to be saints and yet only a few willingly respond to Him. The same is mentioned in Matthew 22:14, “For many are called, but few are chosen.”

    d) The scripture supports that the saints could be misled to wrong path. The following are the extracts: Matthew 24:24, “For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.”; Mark 13:22, “For false Christ and false prophets shall arise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.” The danger of the deception could be the elect might be misled to forsake their faith in God. The same is mentioned in 2 Thessalonians 2:3, “Let no man deceive you by any means:…” This phrase implies that a Christian can be misled.

    The same is mentioned in 1 Timothy 4:1-3 that some saints will depart or will give up from their faith in Jesus as a result of deceptive spirits and their doctrines. As they will depart from faith, they will turn up not to be the saints anymore as a result of their unbelief. The following are the extracts: 1 Timothy 4:1-3, “Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.”

    Hebrews 6:4-6, “For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.”

    For instance, if those people who God predestinates to be the saints could never turn up to be non-Christians, there is no reason why the above verses mention that they could depart from their faith in Jesus. As the above verses prove that the elects could fall, it implies that the elects could have the freewill to salvation even though God might have predestinated them to be the saints.

    e) The scripture supports that God does not spare the saints to sin. The following is the extract: Luke 18:6-8, “And the Lord said, Hear what the unjust judge saith. And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them? I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?” The word, them, in Luke 18:8 refers inevitably to Luke 18:7, “God…own elect…” As the phrase, shall he find faith on the earth, is mentioned in Luke 18:6-8 with the phrase, his own elect, it implies that not all the elects have faith in God. As the phrase, he will avenge them speedily, is mentioned in Luke 18:8 with the phrase, shall he find faith on the earth, it implies that God will avenge the elects whether they have faith in Him.

    f) The scripture mentions that God has the right to lay charge against the elects. Romans 8:33, “Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth.”

    An example of this is given from Jude 1:5, “(that mentions that) I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.” Prior to God leading the people out of the land of Egypt, God blessed all the Israel as mentioned in Deuteronomy 14:2, “for thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God, and the LORD hath chosen thee to be a peculiar people unto himself, above all the nations that are upon the earth.” After blessing the people of Israel, God led the Israelites out of Egypt by parting the sea as mentioned in Exodus 14:22, “And the children of Israel went into the midst of the sea upon the dry ground: and the waters were a wall unto them on their right hand, and on their left.” The children of Israel even praised God for leading them out of Egypt since Exodus 15:1, “(mentions that) Then sang Moses and the children of Israel this song unto the LORD and spake, saying, I will sing unto the LORD, for he hath triumphed gloriously: the horse and his rider hath he thrown into the sea.” Yet afterward God destroyed them that believed not as mentioned in Number 16:30, “But if the LORD make a new thing, and the earth open her mouth, and swallow them up, with all that appertain unto them, and they go down quick into the pit, then ye shall understand these men have provoked the LORD.” From the above event, it is obvious that these people did believe in God initially if not they would not praise God as mentioned in Exodus 15:1. God even blessed them to be an holy people as mentioned in Deuteronomy 14:2. However, Israel commenced in questioning God when facing trial during the journey as a result of unbelief heart and as a result, He decided to annihilate them.

    From the above event, it implies that the elects must not forsake their faith in God by murmuring against Him of His truthfulness with unbelieving heart even though God would have called them to be the elects initially. As mentioned in Romans 8:33 that God is justified to lay charge to elects. Thus, the elects must uphold their faith to the end.

    g) The scripture does not give a definite answer whether all the saints could be saved. 2 Timothy 2:10, “Therefore I endure all things for the elect’s sakes, that they may also obtain which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.” The word, may, in 2 Timothy 2:10 implies possible instead of definite.

    h) If all the elects are to be considered as God’s predestination to be saints, by logic of interpretation, the non-elects should be considered to be God’s predestination to eternal condemnation. Does the scripture establish this logic? Romans 1:24-25 mention why God has given the people up to serve creature other God due to they change the glory of God into an image, i.e. idolatry worshipping, instead of His predestination. The following are the extracts: Romans 1:24-25 (King James Version), “…God…gave them up….served the creature more than the Creator…” due to Romans 1:21, “…they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And CHANGED THE GLORY OF THE UNCORRUPTIBLE GOD INTO AN IMAGE made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.” Romans 1:21 does not mention that God predestinates non-elects. Instead, God gives them up due to their evil proceeding.

    The same is in 2 Thessalonians 2:10-11 that God will sent strong delusion on them to believe a lie of wonders from the working of Satan to their ultimate destruction as a result of they do not believe the truth but have great pleasure in unrighteousness instead of due to God’s predestination for them to eternal condemnation. The extracts are as follows: 2 Thessalonians 2:9-12, “The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.”

    i) The scripture mentions God calls those people, who initially are not His people, to be His people. The same is for Gentiles. God did not intend them to be the saints in the Old Testament and yet God call them to be the saints in New Testament. Romans 9:25-26, “…I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved. And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.” The same is mentioned in Hosea 2:23, “…I will have mercy upon her that had not obtained mercy; and I will say to them which were not my people, Thou art my people; and they shall say, Thou art my God.” In Romans 9:11, it is mentioned that God calls those children who not even be born and not even have faith in Jesus to be His elects since Romans 9:11, “(mentions that) (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)”

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    1. Zuma, I appreciate your comments but you have asked way too many questions at one time for me to address. It would literally take me hours to go through all of what you have written and I simply do not have that kind of idle time. I do not mind having a discussion or even answering questions for that is why I added this section but keep in mind that I run this site all by myself. I have no staff or moderators. Please limit comments to just a few at a time and give me a chance to respond before making additional comments.

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15. j) Does 1 Corinthians 10:13 contradict Hebrews 3:12-15? 1 Corinthians 10:13, “There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.” 1 Corinthians 10:13 should be interpreted that God would ensure the temptation that we go through should be able to bear it, but we must not take it for granted to despise the temptation since scripture does support that a Christian could fall into sin. The following are the extracts: Matthew 24:4, “…Take heed that no man deceive you.”; Mark 13:5, “…Take heed lest any man deceive you.”; Luke 21:8, “…Take heed ye be not deceived…”; Matthew 24:24, “For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.”; 1 Corinthians 10:12, “Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.”; 1 Timothy 3:2, “A bishop…”Ephesians 5:6, “Let no man deceive you with vain words…”; 2 Thessalonians 2:3, “Let no man deceive you by any means…”; Titus 3:3, “For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.”; 1 Timothy 3:6-7, “Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil. Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.”; Hebrews 4:11, “Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.”; Hebrews 6:6, “If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance, seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.”; James 5:12, “…my brethren, swear not, neither by heaven, neither by the earth, neither by any other oath: but let your yea be yea; and your nay, nay; lest ye fall into condemnation.”; 2 Peter 1:10, “…brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall.”; 2 Peter 3:17, “Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own steadfastness.”; Revelation 2:5, “Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works, or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.” Thus, there is no contradiction between 1 Corinthians 10:13 and Hebrews 3:12-15 since elects could be deceived.

    k) Romans 11:17-24 describes the entire community of elects as branches. For instance, if none of the elects could depart from God due to unbelief, there is no reason for the phrase, The branches were broken off, to be mentioned in Romans 11:19. Instead, the entire branches should remain strong and could never be broken off with the assumption that the elects could never fall. As branches could be broken off as mentioned in Romans 11:17, the teaching goes hand in hand with Hebrews 3:12-15 that God could depart from Christians if they would lose their faith in God. The following are the extracts for meditation: Romans 11:17-24 (King James Version), “And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakes of the root and fatness of the olive tree; …The branches were broken off…because of unbelief they were broken off…For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold there the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off…if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again…” As the phrase, if they abide not still in unbelief, is mentioned in Romans 11:23 with the phrase, shall be grafted in, it implies that God would accept them again if they would remain no longer with unbelieving heart.

    l) Does 2 Timothy 2:13 contradict against Hebrews 3:12-15? 2 Timothy 2:13, “If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.” It is irrational to interpret 2 Timothy 2:13 to be God would save the saints even though they might have lost their faith in God. The only possible and acceptable interpretation should be God abides faithful in waiting for those people who have lost their faith in God to turn back to Him since 2 Peter 3:9, “(mentions that) The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”

    m) Does Titus 3:4-7 contradict against Hebrews 3:12-15? Titus 3:4-7, “But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.” The phrase, the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, in Titus 3:4 implies God shows His mercy to a man. Yet Hebrews 3:12-15 is meant for God refuses to show His mercy to a person by departing from him or her due to he or she has departed from his or her faith in Jesus. Thus, it is irrational to comment contradiction due to both verses are entirely different in nature.

    n) The scripture mentions that God forbid the saints to sin. Should the saints take for granted to leave their faith in God as mentioned in Hebrews 3:12-15? What did the LORD mention to those who worship idols? Exodus 32:31, “…this people hath sinned a great sin, and have made them gods of gold.” Exodus 32:33, “And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.” The phrase, my book, in Exodus 32:33 undoubtedly refers to the book of life. The same is mentioned also in Deuteronomy 29. The following are the extracts: Deuteronomy 29:18, “Lest there should be among you man, or woman, or family, or tribe, whose heart turneth away this day from the LORD our God, to go and serve the gods of these nations…” Deuteronomy 29:20, “The LORD will not spare him, but then the anger of the LORD and his jealousy shall smoke against that man, and all the curses that are written in this book shall lie upon him, and the LORD shall blot out his name from under heaven.” What did the Lord comment to those Israelites who disobeyed God due to their unbelief as grumbling against God by saying, Deuteronomy 9:2, “A people great and tall, the children of the Anakims, whom thou knowest, and of whom thou hast heard say, Who can stand before the children of Anak!”? Deuteronomy 9:14, “Let me alone, that I may destroy them, and blot out their name from under heaven…” What was the reason for Amalek to be blotted out under heaven? Deuteronomy 25:17, “Remember what Amalek did unto thee by the way, when ye were come forth out of Egypt.” Deuteronomy 25:18, “…he feared not God.” Deuteronomy 25:19, “…thou shalt blot out the remembrance of Amalek from under heaven; thou shalt not forget it.”

    15) Could deceased infants be lost?

    God spare not infants to death. The following are the extracts: 1 Samuel 15:2-3, “Thus saith the LORD of Hosts,…Now go and smite Amalek, and…slay…infant and suckling…”; Hosea 13:16, “Samaria…hath rebelled against her God:…their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up.”; Exodus 13:15, “…the LORD slew all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both the firstborn of man…”; Deuteronomy 3:3, “So the LORD our God delivered into our hands Og also, …and all his people…” and Deuteronomy 3:6, “…we utterly destroyed… the men, women, and children, of every city.”; Deuteronomy 13:15, “Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and ALL that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword.”; Deuteronomy 32:19-20, “…the LORD saw it, he abhorred them, because of the provoking of his sons, and his daughters. And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be; for they are a very forward generation, children in whom is no faith.”: Deuteronomy 32:25, “The sword without, and terror within, shall destroy both the young man and the virgin, the suckling also with the man of gray hairs.”; Joshua 6:21, “And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, …young and old,…with the edge of the sword.”; Joshua 8:26, “For Joshua drew not his hand back, wherewith he stretched out the spear, until he had utterly destroyed ALL the inhabitants of Ai.”; Judge 21: 10, “And the congregation…smite the inhabitants of Jabeshgilead with the edge of the sword, with the women, and the children.”; Isaiah 13:9, “Behold, the day of the LORD cometh…” Isaiah 13:16, “Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes…”; Isaiah 14:21-22, “Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers…For I will rise up against them, saith the LORD of Hosts…”; Hosea 2:4, “…I will not have mercy upon her children; for they be the children of whoredoms.”; Hosea 13:16, “Samaria…hath rebelled against her God:…their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up.”

    Could Christians’ children be granted with salvation automatically? Ezekiel 14:20, “Though Noah, Daniel, & Job were in it, as I live, saith the Lord God , they shall deliver neither son nor daughter; they shall but deliver their own souls by their righteousness.”; Ezekiel 14:18, “Though these men were in it, as I live, saith the Lord GOD, they shall deliver neither sons nor daughters, but they only shall be delivered themselves.”; Ezekiel 14:14, “Though these three men, Noah, Daniel, & Job, were in it, they should deliver but their own souls by their righteousness, saith the Lord.”

    Could a child commit sin? Or, does God recognize the sin from an infant? Psalms 58:3, “The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.”

    16) Miscellaneous

    What is our attitude to those people have been misled by false teaching? James 5:19-20, “Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, & one convert him; let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from err of his way shall save a soul from death, & shall hide a multitude of sins.”

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16. Are you a Muslim since your name is Sulaiman?

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    1. No

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17. Hello,
    This not an attack on you, but for your own increase in the knowledge of the truth. Your articles are correct, but some of your answers are not inline with scriptures.

    This question was asked “in the millienium reign of Christ ,who will be saved on earth?who will they rule and reign with? is it only themselves and jesus reigning? just want to find out will the elect and jesus be the only people during that time? or will they rule over other people during that time?

    you answer was “Nobody because reigning with Christ for 1,000 years is the reward for believers not salvation for the lost/wicked. Their salvation doesn’t come until they are judged in the resurrection to judgment. The elect and Jesus Christ will be the only people living during that time because …the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished (Revelation 20:5). They will rule over all peoples of the earth but that won’t happen until everyone is brought back to life in the resurrection.”

    Rev 7:9-17 shows there will be people who survive the great tribulation, the great multitude. It is these people that Christ and the 144,000 will rule over. (Zechariah 13:8-9) shows that 1/3 will be brought through the fire, which is inline with (Rev 7:9-17). There is much more on this subject that you can read on here:
    https://godsplanforall.com/free-online-book/part-i/chapter-11-the-millennial-age-of-the-kingdom-of-god/

    No one wants to hear that they are not correct on certain topics, but those with a humble heart will embrace it as a chance to learn, to be true worshipers(John 4:23-24).

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    1. Hi Ric and thanks for your comment but with all due respect, I disagree with you and here is why… I believe that the message of the book of Revelation applies to ALL believers throughout all ages for this “revelation” is the revelation of Jesus Christ who IS (present), WAS (past), and will be (future). I do not believe that the book of Revelation is written in sequential order in terms of events nor do I believe that it is written in sheer futurist view. Also, the book of Revelation is a book fully of spiritual symbolism that is not supposed to be interpreted literally. I do not believe in a literal period of time called the “great tribulation” for believers throughout all ages go through tribulation. I do not believe that 144,000 is a literal number but more of a symbol for the complete foundation of God’s government. I do not believe that literal Jews will be reigning with Christ but rather “spiritual Jews” which are those who are circumcised spiritually in heart not in outside flesh. There will NEVER be a literal future time literal battle called “Armageddon” for we wrestle not with flesh and blood. The real battle is “spiritual” and it takes place in the mind overcoming the works of the flesh. I believe that the site that you’ve referenced has the core beliefs correct but much of the literal interpretation of the book of Revelation is just inaccurate in my opinion.

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18. I enjoyed reading your commentary. I believe you are correct about the false doctrine of eternal torture in fire. Can you clarify for me one thing? I was unable to understand quite who is not saved. Your explanation of the false gospel being preached seems to imply that most of Christendom have it wrong….. so they are not “saved” as they claim to be. So then if “all” will be saved according to the will of God, would that not include the ones who are teaching salvation incorrectly? And if all are saved, who are the ones destroyed in the end whose names are not written in the Lamb’s book of life? Thanks.

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    1. Salvation will come to all in their proper timing… Read 1 Corinthians chapter 15. Paul tells us that ALL will be made alive in Christ which is paralleled to the all that die in Adam. All of humanity is in view here but everyone being made alive in Christ occurs to each one in their own order… Christ is the first order, then the firstfruits which are those that will rise in the first resurrection of age-abiding life, and the final consummation occurs in the second resurrection to judgment which will result in the salvation of the world. So yes, all of Christendom is not saved and they will not be saved until they go through the fire of God’s judgment in the resurrection. Destruction implies death for even Christ himself was destroyed but God can redeem what He destroys. Every single person will go through destruction – that is – destruction of our carnal selves…

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19. Ok. So you are saying there is no second death? If there is no selection of those who believe, and conversely no burning of the chaff and weeds, what is the point of the great commission at all? What is the point of even your teaching? What difference does it make?
    Why not be a nominal Christian?
    Why not follow Islam?
    Why not be an atheist?
    I recognise that being saved is not by any merit – only by Grace – and I have understood “enduring” as something which occurs by means of “transformation” – Romans 12:2 – not something that I offer for reward (because without Christ in us we can do nothing – John 15:5) but why any need to “endure” at all? Why any need for transformation now? Why any need for the Gospel now?
    If ALL are to be saved, whole earth could be as it was in the days of Noah, and when the creator decides time is up, He could just wind it all up and save everyone. And that is exactly what atheists ask of a “loving God”.
    Metaphors or not, why a lake of fire, or Gehenna, to describe the destruction of the wicked if *destruction* is merely “destruction of our carnal selves”.
    My death and decomposition followed by my resurrection as incorruptible – yes, that would be destruction of the carnal self.
    But it the dead, *not in Christ* are also raised incorruptible, Why the need for God to “call me” at all?

    In all that I had seen of your teaching so far, this on is the only one that I cannot make sense of….. scriptural or logically.

    (and PS. I do not see where “Christ Himself was destroyed” (for I His body was not left in the grave that he would not see corruption – Ps 16:10 / Acts 2:27)
    The Separation of body and spirit = death, which Christ went through to pay the blood price for sin and then be the first fruits of the resurrection is not the *destruction* Christ warned of in his pictures – Matthew chapters 5: 10: 18: 23: & Mark 9.)

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    1. There are MANY called but FEW chosen (God’s elect)! That is the point… if God is choosing you out of the world to be a member of the elect, then every question you asked should be understood. I have never stated that there is no second death and the selection of those who believe and those who don’t are separated by different resurrection events – some to a resurrection to life and some to a resurrection to judgment. We all go through a physical death and that is the FIRST DEATH but the SECOND DEATH is a spiritual death for it has nothing to do with the taking away of life but rather it is the destruction of our carnal selves. That is what the lake of fire judgment is, being purged of our carnal selves but the lake of fire judgment is reserved for those who rise in the second resurrection to judgment which will be a far worse process than going through judgment in this life. Those who rise in the first resurrection, the resurrection to life avoid the lake of fire judgment, however, the burning of CHAFF is something that happens in the life of the BELIEVER! Matthew 3:12 is not talking about different outcomes for different people in reference to the wheat and chaff. Chaff is a part of the wheat grain and it is essentially the useless outer shell of the grain itself so the metaphor applies to the wheat that Christ gathers into His storehouse which is referring to God’s chosen, the elect. The elect go through judgment as well but our judgment occurs in this life. We go through various forms of judgment to destroy the outer shell of the flesh (our carnality) in this life as to avoid the pending future judgment of the world. A lot of people make mention of the purpose of the great commission, if all will be saved when most do not even know what the great commission is. It is not the preaching of Jesus in the world. This is the Great Commission…

       1 John 4:14 We have seen and testify that the Father has sent (COMMISSIONED) the Son to be the Savior of the world.

       That’s it, but how many believe it? Do you think that God sending ministers throughout the world to preach about Jesus is “greater” than Him sending His son to be the Savior of the world? Will Jesus fail? Is God a bad commissioner?

       Again, there are MANY called but FEW chosen and God’s elect will have a special calling…

       A nominal Christian will NOT be a member of God’s elect.
       Believers of Islam will NOT be a member of God’s elect.
       Atheist will NOT be a member of God’s elect.

       If transformation and enduring until the end is necessary, how would it be possible if God wasn’t raising up teachers qualified to teach His word in a sea full of religious and spiritual deception? How would you know what to believe? How would I know what I know if I hadn’t learned it from someone else? That is the point of teaching… to learn!

       Those who rise in the first resurrection to life are raised in spiritual immortal bodies for they are the ones that have already gone through judgment in their earthly lives. Those who rise in the second resurrection are not raised in spiritual immortal bodies for their judgment still awaits them but they will be made spiritual and immortal after they go through the purging of the lake of fire second death judgment. In Revelation 15:2, we read about a sea of glass MINGLED WITH FIRE and this symbolizes the inhabitants of the world going through judgment and coming out purified by fire. They are standing on a sea of glass (without fire) for these are those who went through judgment prior to the resurrection (God’s chosen elect).

       So, how does all of this come about? Remember that I told you that God’s elect have a special calling and that calling is to become SUPERHEROES for God! God is choosing you to be a SAVIOR!

       Obadiah 1:21 And saviors shall come up on mount Zion to judge the mount of Esau; and the kingdom shall be the Lord’s.

       Saviors is PLURAL (God’s elect) and they shall judge (1 Corinthians 6:2) the mount of Esau (the world of carnality)… and when God’s judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS! (Isaiah 26:9)

       This same message is echoed in Daniel 12:2-3 Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting (age-abiding) life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting (age-lasting) contempt. Those who have insight will shine brightly like the brightness of the expanse of heaven, and those who lead the many to righteousness, like the stars forever and ever (for the age and beyond).

       In verse 2, we have the two resurrection events with some rising to age-abiding life and some to age-lasting judgment. Those who rise in the first resurrection to age-abiding life are those who have insight (wisdom) and they will LEAD the many who rise in the second resurrection to age-lasting judgment to righteousness.

       As far as the destruction of Christ goes, Psalm 16:10 and Acts 2:27 only points to the fact that Christ was not LEFT in grave but He did in fact die and was buried after suffering a brutal death. Christ was destroyed! He was beaten, flogged, and nailed to cross to die like one of the worst criminals. That is DESTRUCTION!

       Matthew 12:14 Then the Pharisees went out, and held a council against him, how they might destroy him (Jesus). (They wanted to KILL Christ – dying and being killed is destruction).

       John 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. (Jesus acknowledges that He, His soul (life & body) could be DESTROYED but He also acknowledges that He can raise it up. The temple of God is not a dead body).

       God didn’t suffer His Holy One to see corruption (decay) because He resurrected Him before decomposition set in.

       Christ was DESTROYED for us!

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       1. Thanks for your extended reply.
          When I read at the beginning, “if God is choosing you out of the word (world) to be a member of the elect, then every question you asked should be understood” I cringed.
          Christadelphians, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Seventh Day Adventist’s, High Roman Catholics all say similar things. I recall a RC simply refusing to accept any word from me because I did not posses “magisterial authority”.

          But anyway, acording to your criteria, God is calling me then…. because I DID understand every question I asked. I just wanted to see your answers.

          I agree the bible does not teach an eternal torture burning in flames…. your writings about this are clear, explain the errors of that idea and show how there is no such teaching in the bible.

          Unfortunately, your belief (in your reply to me above) that there is no actual final elimination of anyone, but that all are eventually saved is not matched by similar clarity. It seems rather to make the same mistake of interpreting the bible to fit ideas.

          It is not that I do not understand what you are saying, but that you are drawing conclusions that are simply not there….. (just as do those who claim Hell is a place of eternal torment.)
          This is particularly glaring with your attempt to explain “destruction” with respect to Jesus.

          But rather than replying with further explanation of why you believe what you believe about that, it would be of more benefit to me if you could just explain to me the following (in context of your teaching that all will be saved)
          …….following sequentially your response to me…….
          What possible point is there in God “calling” and “choosing” anyone….. for what purpose?
          Why be a member of God’s elect?
          What point is there in God raising up teachers….. to teach what?…. and why?
          What advantage is there in being in the first resurrection if the second will ultimately result in the same?
          What point can there be in being in a “special calling” to be a SUPERHERO……?
          Chosen to be a SAVIOUR…….? A saviour for what…. if all will be saved?
          What point is there in teaching the world RIGHTEOUSNESS?
          It does not matter….. if all will be saved. Righteousness will not save them.

          The above is the only point that is relevant to me at the moment.
          If the only difference between those who are chosen and those who are not chosen, is belonging to an “elect” who ultimately achieve nothing more than the rest through eternity, then let’s eat drink and be merry, for the Lord’s death and resurrection covers us all.

          Thanks.

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       2. When I stated, “if God is choosing you out of the world to be a member of the elect, then every question you asked should be understood”… the “if” and the “should” are both words of assumption, that is, assuming that you endure to the end as enduring is the qualifier which is not acording (according) to my criteria but according to God’s criteria who does in fact have “magisterial authority”. It would be HIGHLY irresponsible for me to tell someone that God is calling or choosing them for that is not my call to make.

          It appears based on your last comment that you have an issue with the idea of all being saved if there is no distinction between those called, those chosen, and the rest of the lost world. I can actually understand that perspective seemingly because it would appear to be no benefit of being called, chosen, or lost if there is no distinction in all being saved but when I explained to you that the chosen do in fact have a higher calling than the others, the ones you say posses (possess) “magisterial authority”, you cringe? I’m not sure that I understand your position for what you have presented is like complaining that it is hot and then when someone turns on the AC, you complain about it being cold… It is an unfair assessment for you to liken me to the likes of Christadelphians, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Seventh Day Adventist’s, and High Roman Catholics based on the premise that all those groups have this so called “magisterial authority”. What words have you presented to me suggesting that I’ve refused to accept any word from you simply because you didn’t possess “magisterial authority”? As far as I’m concerned, all you have presented to me is a series of questions that you seemingly don’t even really want answers to. If you understand every question you asked, why are you asking me questions? Let every man be convinced in his own mind.
          Based on your statements, if would appear that you believe in the concept of eternal destruction or annihilation and if I am correct about that assumption, it would’ve been better for you to just state your position from the beginning so that we can deal with that directly. It would be better for you to learn that eternal destruction is unscriptural first before trying to understand the truth of universal salvation. You are trying to understand a teaching with impaired vision. Remove what is obscuring your vision and you will clearly see what is evident. When I have dialogue with those who believe in eternal punishment (hell), we have to deal with that teaching first. I never start off with trying to explain universal salvation first and that is why my first paper was about the false doctrine of hell. People cannot understand the truth of universal salvation while embracing false doctrines. I can easily dispel the teaching of eternal destruction simply by dealing with the word “eternal” as it has no place in the scriptures. If you believe that the scriptures teach that there is a final annihilation of certain people, you should make that claim so we can deal with it. Show me the scriptures that you use to justify that position for you telling me that I’m making the same mistake of interpreting the bible to fit ideas is just pure conjecture when you’ve offered nothing but a series of unwarranted questions.

          You said, “It is not that I do not understand what you are saying, but that you are drawing conclusions that are simply not there….. (just as do those who claim Hell is a place of eternal torment.)”
          Really? So you are essentially accusing me of changing bible words to mean something they do not mean? That’s a pretty unfair accusation but if you are going to assign such a crime to me, it would’ve been nice had you listed the conclusions that you think I just made up. If we understand that the words “eternal and everlasting” are improperly translated words, any other words that are linked to those words will still be improper. So, the teaching of eternal or everlasting “punishment” is improper because the words in the original languages translated to mean eternal and everlasting are incorrect. The same logic applies to the teaching of eternal destruction.
          In reference back to your comment about me “drawing conclusions that are simply not there”, you support that statement by referring back to my explanation of “destruction” as is pertains to Jesus. Listen, we obviously have different understandings of what “destruction” means but if you think this word implies annihilation then I can understand why you would think that I’m drawing conclusions that are simply not there. I have already told you that destruction points to DEATH and not eternal obliteration. The Greek word “apollymi” is used in scripture as the words DESTROY and PERISH! There are many scriptures where both of these words imply death so to be “destroyed” means to DIE. Christ did die so Christ was destroyed but Christ was resurrected from death so the state of being dead or being destroyed is a state that is temporary.
          “But rather than replying with further explanation of why you believe what you believe about that, it would be of more benefit to me if you could just explain to me the following (in context of your teaching that all will be saved)”

          If you do not want me to make a comment about a certain topic, do not criticize me for when you do that, you open yourself up to further explanation. You have asked me a lot of questions in regards to explaining the logic in all being saved but did you by chance read my paper on God’s Plan of Salvation for the Whole World? If not then I encourage you to do so for I go into much detail in that paper explaining why and how God saves the whole world. With that said, I will offer some thoughts to your questions but before I do that, let me make one disclaimer… The teaching that “all will be saved” is NOT my teaching… It is God’s teaching!

          1 Timothy 2:3-4 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; WHO WILL HAVE ALL MEN TO BE SAVED, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

          Now, most proponents of eternal punishment (hell) are quick to point out that the Greek word “thelo” translated as “will” in verse 4 really only means desire so God only desires to save all men but that doesn’t mean that all men will ultimately be saved. My argument to that is, what is stopping God from getting what He desires? I mean, He is “GOD” right? What is so powerful that it trumps the sovereignty of God in that it would prevent God from getting what He likes, desires, wills, wishes or whatever word anyone wants to use? Is there is a scripture that says God will accomplish what He desires would you believe it? Let’s find out…

          Isaiah 46:9-11 Remember what I accomplished in antiquity! Truly I am God, I have no peer; I am God, and there is none like me, who announces the end from the beginning and reveals beforehand what has not yet occurred, who says, ‘MY PLAN WILL BE REALIZED, I WILL ACCOMPLISH WHAT I DESIRE,’ who summons an eagle from the east, from a distant land, one who carries out my plan. YES, I HAVE DECREED, YES, I WILL BRING IT TO PASS; I HAVE FORMULATED A PLAN, YES, I WILL CARRY IT OUT.

          Those are not my words… I didn’t write 1 Timothy 2:3-4 or Isaiah 46:9-11. Those are the words of God so the desire of God to save ALL MEN and that God will accomplish what He desires is His own teaching. I’m just sharing it! So, all of my questions will be answered with that understanding…

          What possible point is there in God “calling” and “choosing” anyone….. for what purpose?

          God has a plan… God has a purpose… God uses people to accomplish His plan and His purpose. If you reread Isaiah 46:11, it says, WHO SUMMONS AN EAGLE FROM THE EAST, FROM A DISTANT LAND, ONE WHO CARRIES OUT MY PLAN. God calls many but few answer the call. You can’t be chosen without being called first. Just as an earthly king appoints people to serve on special counsels or high ranking committees, God calls and chooses people for the same purposes. God didn’t create humanity just to commit eternal genocide on the highest of levels. Creation belongs to God just like your children (assuming that you are a parent) belong to you. Good parents do not destroy their children good or bad. God is a parent too… God is a Father and while He did kill His son, it was for a greater cause and He brought His back to life bestowing Him with everything He has.

          Why be a member of God’s elect?

          Imagine being called to serve in the office of the president… the prestige of any calling is based on the office for which you are being called to serve and for this example, that office is of the office of the president. Is the office of God not better than the office of the president? We are talking about the Creator of the UNIVERSE and this same Creator decides to choose you to serve in His government and you ask, “why be a member of God’s elect”? Out of the billions upon billions of people that have existed throughout the history of humanity, God chooses YOU to serve on His special counsel… there is NO higher calling than that in the entire universe. The salvation of the world is a great task for most do not even believe that it is possible nor even logical. To be elected to serve on that committee for God is a special honor for which there is no greater honor.

          What point is there in God raising up teachers….. to teach what?…. and why?

          Teachers are required for learning. We send our children to school for 13 years to LEARN! God expects us to learn but we can’t learn without teachers. God raises up prophets and teachers to instruct in His word and to teach on matters pertaining to those things that are spiritual – (WHO SUMMONS AN EAGLE FROM THE EAST, FROM A DISTANT LAND). God wants us to behave righteously and righteousness is something that is learned over time. Even as humans we are expected to mature and to make good decisions as we get older. You cannot teach yourself what you do not know so you… not knowing or believing that God’s plans is to save all of humanity; I am teaching you these things. Whether you believe it is not up to me…

          What advantage is there in being in the first resurrection if the second will ultimately result in the same?

          Those who rise in the first resurrection are promised an additional age of life referred to as the 1,000 year millennial reign with Christ. Those who rise in the second do not experience this.

          Those who rise in the first resurrection avoid the lake of fire second death judgment which is said to be a far worse and much harsher judgment than what first resurrection participants go through. We are given the opportunity to judge ourselves in this life but in the next judgment, it will be against our will.

          Just as there are different types of physical or fleshly bodies, there are also different spiritual bodies. Since first resurrection participants have a higher calling than the rest of the world, it is my presumption that they will also have spiritual bodies that are more glorious. Paul talks about this in 1 Corinthians 15…

          First resurrection participants will judge and save the world… This is the GREATEST call to duty that any person could ever be called to PERIOD! Think about the respect and reverence that is granted towards military personnel? Would God not warrant and even greater demand for respect and reverence? God as the Commander and Chief of the entire UNIVERSE recruits you to be His lieutenant and you question the worthiness of that? I really do not understand why you attempt to water down the high calling of God’s elect simply because the ultimate outcome is the salvation of all… There are better ways to reach the same destination for driving to Florida from New York is far better than having to walk there. The person that had to walk doesn’t need to die forever for the journey of the person that drove to have more value.

          What point can there be in being in a “special calling” to be a SUPERHERO……?

          Saving another person’s life is probably the most honorable thing a person can do in this life so being called to be one of God’s SUPERHEROES is a pretty darn cool. I used the word “superhero” as a pun because people that save other people are typically called HEROES. If a person is responsible for saving BILLIONS of people, wouldn’t that qualify as being a SUPERHERO or a SUPER-SAVIOR?

          Chosen to be a SAVIOUR…….? A saviour for what…. if all will be saved?

          If all will be saved? Salvation is NOT something that happens automatically for nobody is currently “saved” (past tense) at the present time. Salvation is a PROCESS! It doesn’t happen in the twinkling of an eye. God causes people to go through judgment even in this life in which we learn to destroy the works of our carnal nature. Jesus Christ has ALREADY paid for the penalty of sin which is death however, humanity still needs to go through corrective judgment to ultimately die to the deeds of the flesh. That is God’s salvation process for humanity for creation is God’s workmanship. God is creating (emphasis on the “ing” for that implies that it isn’t finished yet) in His image and the image of God is Jesus Christ. Just as a car goes through a manufacturing process, humanity is going through a salvation process and God calls and chooses out people to assist in the process.

          What point is there in teaching the world RIGHTEOUSNESS? It does not matter….. if all will be saved. Righteousness will not save them.

          The world doesn’t live by the standards of God’s righteousness so His righteousness must be taught. The world has a version of righteousness but our righteousness is as filthy rags to God. Learning righteousness is not a qualifier for salvation but rather, it is a product of God’s salvation process for we are being made in the image of Jesus Christ, who is “the righteous One”. Remember, ALL are made alive in Christ and this is contrasted with the same ALL that die in Adam. Is Adam greater than Christ? All of humanity was subjected to death due to Adam’s sinful act and in similar fashion; ALL will be subjected to life though the righteousness that is in Christ. The same ALL (all of humanity) is in view… (Read Romans 5) It is HIGHLY irresponsible to assume that nothing matters if all will be saved. I could easily argue that NOTHING matters if the majority of humanity are not saved. If there are 100 people trapped in a burning building and someone says, “nobody will be saved”, what would be the point in trying to save them? The logic of, “it does not matter” is more applicable in that scenario than it would be if the same person says, “everyone will be saved”… If that is the case, then EVERYTHING MATTERS! Just because all our saved doesn’t mean that there isn’t work that needs to be done. Saving humanity is a grand task!

          “If the only difference between those who are chosen and those who are not chosen, is belonging to an “elect” who ultimately achieve nothing more than the rest through eternity, then let’s eat drink and be merry, for the Lord’s death and resurrection covers us all”.

          In regards to that comment above, what does a person have to do to receive the Lord’s death and resurrection based on your logic? The scriptures tell us that Jesus Christ DIED for the sins of the WORLD. That means he died for your sins and my sins well before we were even born or could ever even commit a sin. So, what did you do that was so special, so magnificent that the Lord’s death and resurrection covers you and presumably only those who believe as you do? The wages of sin is DEATH and ALL have sinned! Jesus Christ DIED for the sins of the world… Do you fully comprehend that assessment? If according to your logic, the punishment for sin is ETERNAL DESTRUCTION then Christ having paid for the penalty of sin for humanity should have NEVER been raised from the dead. The purpose of the cross was to reconcile humanity back to God through Christ from the clutches of dead and the grave. That’s why Paul tells us that death will be swallowed in VICTORY! Jesus has the keys to death and the grave but according to you, the lock is broken as you sentence billions of people to eternal death. How can there be victory over death if we consider the billions of people you consign to eternal death? That would make “death” supreme over life for there would be many more people subjected to death as opposed to life according to that logic which essentially makes Adam greater than Christ. Adam achieved a 100% success rate when it comes to death being passed to all humanity. But, according to the logic of annihilationist, Jesus Christ will achieve a success rate of less than 10%. What kind of sense does that make when we consider that Jesus Christ has ALL authority in heaven and in earth? Essentially, Adam, the KILLER of the world is greater than the Savior of the world for your position makes Christ the ultimate FAILURE of the world. If I sent my son out TO BE the greatest student at school, I am expecting him to be the greatest student at school. Anything less would be considered failure. GOD sent His son “Jesus Christ” TO BE the Savior of the world and you do not commission someone to do a thing without expecting them to follow through with the commission they were sent to accomplish. You liken Christ to being a complete and cataclysmic failure and God as being the most stupid of Creators having commissioned such a total failure. I speak as fool…

          Maybe you are simply not worthy of the high calling of being a member of God’s elect seeing as you deem it as something so meaningless…

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20. Quick question, if no hell what was the purpose of the parable in regards to the rich man and the poor man outside the gate?

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    1. I have written an entire paper explaining the parable of the rich man and Lazarus in my series on the false doctrine of hell. First and foremost, the story is a PARABLE and parables are stories that depict symbolic and figurative language. The rich man never went to some place called hell the rich man died and lifted up his eyes from “HADES”. Hades is not hell and hell is not hades. Hades is a Greek word that literally means “the unseen”. When people die, they no longer exist and the state of being nonexistent is what accurately describes what “hades” is. Think of it as the place you were before you were born. You didn’t exist until you were born and when we die, we go back to that state until the resurrection. So the rich man died, went to hades, and in the resurrection he will lift up his eyes from the grave. The rich man himself is a symbol and so is Lazarus. If you want to understand the parable in detail then I would encourage you to read the paper that I wrote on this topic.

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21. I’m sensing a lot of repeating scriptures in your articles. Also isn’t Galatians talking about turning back to the doctrine of works through the old covenant law?

    Also sensing a lot of bias against the Christian church. For instance, saying things like we want people to go to hell. We don’t, and I know you don’t either, that’s clear. But that’s why we want people to know the gospel. Even many of those who talk about hell aren’t doing so for the sake of financial gain. There are many of us who are legitimately concerned for lost souls. I for one am far more concerned about being wrong in your shoes than in mine.

    And one thing that I have mentioned before is that God can still guide us sovereignly and still be sovereignly in control, even if He does give some free to be able to love freely. It would be against His nature to force love, would it not? And likewise it would be against His nature not to punish.

    No offense friend, I’m just sensing a little hostility towards the modern church. I agree there are many perverting scripture for financial gain, but this is not the whole church.

    Once again, please don’t take offense. I want God to save everybody just like you. Even the most wicked sinners in history. But what holds me back is that love can’t be forced in order for it to be genuine. Which sadly is why I believe some won’t make it. I’ll keep reading and look forward to reading anything you have to say. I’m not rejecting your view, I’m just not sure yet. I’ll pray for the Lord to continue to guide be to the truth.

    God bless.

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    1. Okay, you say love can’t be forced but how is Christianity’s version of God’s gospel an expression of love? Worship me or burn in hell forever or be burnt up for forever with no hope of a resurrection? When I criticize Christianity, I am criticizing fundamental Christian doctrine. I know that there are many decent people who are Christians who believe in hell but they believe out of ignorance not knowledge. The Christian church has filled the pages of history with blood more than any other institution in the world all in the name of Christ. Christianity has become a get out of hell religion and hell has always been used to scare people into becoming religious slaves. What makes you think that you are any more found than the lost souls that you speak about? You are telling me that you would rather stay in your shoes in believing a lie that totally blasphemes the name of God instead of being in my shoes when all I’ve done is repeat what the scriptures say?

       Jesus Christ is the Savior of the world – scripture

       God will have all men to be saved – scripture

       God is not will that any should perish – scripture

       All will be made alive in Christ – scripture

       The inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness – scripture

       many will be turned to righteousness – scripture

       These are all scriptures found in the bible but you reject them? Please explain… We all have bias even you because you see things your way based on your upbringing, culture, experiences, etc. but there is no denying what the scriptures say when we refuse to accept the dogmas and traditions that Christianity tells us we cannot question. As far as hostility goes… THE CHRISTIAN CHURCH TEACHES THAT GOD IS GOING TO TORTURE BILLIONS OF PEOPLE’S FAMILY MEMBERS INCLUDING CHILDREN, and you are worried about me being hostile? Do you support the rape of little girls? Would you be hostile towards that? I would assume so because you seem to be a reasonable person but hell is spiritual rape. It is forcing people to believe in something that is heinous and then expecting them to tell other people about it. The modern church is corrupt beyond measure and even Christ commands His people to come out of her in the book of Revelation. Do you think that it is impossible for God to cause the necessary corrective judgments for everyone to change and to ultimately fall in love with God when the knowledge of God is fully in the earth? I have never stated that God doesn’t punish. I’m a father and I punish but my punishments are corrective. I am trying to correct a bad behavior in my children. I don’t lock them up in a dungeon and starve them to death. I love them and I want them to learn. Sometimes my punishments hurt but the suffering is short lived but the lesson is hopefully long applied. Who can choose to love God in their purely carnal state? What was it about Christianity that influenced you to accept Christianity’s version of God? Well, not going to hell is a big motivation for a lot of Christians and that is doubled by the belief that Christians go to some place called “heaven” when we die. Based on what you have said in your comment, you believe evil wins. The bible says love never fails. Christianity doesn’t believe that just some won’t make it, they believe that the majority won’t make it. What you are implying is that man is more powerful than God. There are many that haven’t experienced the love of God and Christianity fails in that department by a long shot. Why would a person embrace Christianity when they offer a sense of hopelessness for lost loved ones? My dad died without Christ and according to fundamental Christian doctrine, he entered eternity in 2008 and God has been barbecuing him for the past nearly 12 years. This is just complete insanity to me. When I was a Christian I was terrified of dying because I could not live by the ultra religious standards of living sin free according to the church so I feared death to an extreme degree but not anymore. I know now that my father is resting in his death sleep and will rise in the resurrection to go through a series of corrective judgments in which he will learn righteousness and ultimately submit to Christ.

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       1. You are full of blasphemy there is a hell and enemy good people don’t go to heaven born again people do God forgive them for they know not what they say or do

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       2. There is nothing more blasphemous than the doctrine of hell but you are free to think and believe whatever you want to. You are not the first person to leave a worthless comment on this site and you certainly won’t be the last. Are you even capable of constructing a valid argument or do you just prefer repeating religious talking points?

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22. I agree whole heartedly with you about the egregious error of the sinner’s prayer. Having practiced the diabolical teaching myself as an “evangelist” and witnessing the failure of this practice, I agree with Leonard Ravenhill: “The sinner’s prayer has sent more people to Hell than all the taverns in America.”
    Which brings me to the second point: To deny the doctrine of Hell, Gehenna, Hades, eternal death, is to deny scripture, as this doctrine is replete throughout scripture, most prominent the NT. If there was no eternal damnation, the sacrifices of the old economy would have been sufficient. There is a Hell to shun and a Heaven to gain. There is no universal salvation.
    I can cite scriptures to prove both, but I see no point. You are deceived on this particular truth, and deceiving others. GOD bless.

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    1. Thanks for commenting but if you are going to be critical at least do your due diligence. I do not deny the doctrine of Gehenna or Hades but hell and eternal death are Christian inventions. I have written and entire series about the false doctrine of hell so I’m not going to repeat what I’ve already written about that subject. I would encourage you to read it and offer whatever disagreements or criticisms you may have but I’m not confident that you are someone that has eyes to see and ears to hear. I understand why hell is so important to you and your ilk because you need to feel special. Your fanciful heaven of eternal bliss want be as good without the billions of losers you cosign to Christianity’s pagan hell. Just because something is written in the bible doesn’t make it scripture. I suggest you read up on the Johannine Comma if you think the church wasn’t capable of corruption of the scriptures. We are admonished to study to show ourselves approved for anyone can regurgitate the dogmas of Christian tradition just as babies repeat what their parents say and do. If there was eternal damnation then Christ’s work on the cross was a failure. Christ’s work was to defeat death but according to you death will reign over billions for all eternity. You don’t believe in Christ, you believe in Christianity. There is a hell to shun not because it is scary but only because it is a damnable lie. You cannot come onto my site and tell me there’s no universal salvation anymore than I can tell you that it is and you listen to me. Please, by all means cite the scriptures you believe proves your point that God is a liar and that He won’t do what He says He will do. I always find it to be quite the pickle when deceived people accuse other people of being deceived. I’ve destroyed virtually every fundamental Christian doctrine that is a lie on this site and no a single Christian has been able to provide even a semi-logical rebuttal. It is always lying, deflection, then disappearance. I will give you the opportunity to make your arguments but unless you are willing to be open enough to listen to what I say then you are right, there is no point. I walked your path (the Christian path that is) but I seriously doubt you have walked the path of universal salvation not even for a little bit. I will leave you with this one truth from God’s word that you and virtually all Christians deny. In 1 Timothy 2:4, God says He WILL have all men (humanity) to be saved and to come into the knowledge of the truth. How do you explain this since you believe that God won’t save all of humanity?

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23. Hello again Sulaiman
    I continue to follow this discussion over several years…….

    It goes without saying that you are supremely confident in your understanding and teaching of the subject of hell, but I am not as convinced as you are that you have “…..destroyed virtually every fundamental Christian doctrine that is a lie on this site and not a single Christian has been able to provide even a semi-logical rebuttal….”

    But I continue to allow for the possibility of seeing something that have not noticed before.

    Let me give several examples from your latest reply to *breadoflife639* that limit my acceptance that you have adequately answered all objections.

    1. It does not make sense to argue that “hell is so important…..because you need to feel special”……. or that *heaven wont be as good without the billions of losers consigned to hell*. Although there may be some who think that way, it is certainly not a required REASON for belief in hell…… ie. compared to hell being the penalty for rejection of Salvation.

    Let me hasten to reiterate that I do not believe in an eternal life of torment in fire for unbelievers, but rather a *destruction*. This is where I part ways with the doctrine of torture in “never-ending-fire”.

    That being said, I don’t think it helps to claim others believe in an eternal hell just to make them feel good about heaven. It would be preferable to re-summarise your reasons for teaching that there is no ultimate destruction of the unrepentant contrary to references to it.

    2. You say: “If there was eternal damnation then Christ’s work on the cross was a failure. Christ’s work was to defeat death but according to you death will reign over billions for all eternity.”

    I am not sure how you come to that conclusion. It is really a straw man argument.
    Christ defeating death refers to his resurrection.
    Death only “reigns” in the sense that in this life death is an unbeatable enemy.
    We are promised that those “in Christ” will live again and death will no longer be the enemy.
    It does not follow that unrepentant sinners will not be be destroyed at the second death.
    Following the judgment death is also destroyed.
    But the destruction of death does not demand that all beings who no longer exist should be somehow brought back into existence.
    It just means there will be no MORE death.
    It does not logically follow that eternal death means that “death” has any power to “reign”. Death is a state-of-being, not an entity.

    3. You wrote: “Please, by all means cite the scriptures you believe proves your point that God is a liar and that He won’t do what He says He will do.”

    That is akin to the fallacy of the “loaded question”…. or maybe just “begging the question.”
    I sense your frustration, but it does not help to make these “no-win” type statements. Of course we all believe God will do what He says He will do….. and He is not a liar, but the dispute is regarding WHAT HE SAID not whether He is a liar.

    If we take your final verse as an example of what God said:
    “1 Timothy 2:4, God says He WILL have all men (humanity) to be saved and to come into the knowledge of the truth”….. you have put “humanity” in parenthesis to indicate that “men” does not mean only men will be saved.
    That is right to do, and it demonstrates a need for correct understanding; where the KJV uses the word “men” it means all “people”….. (pantas anthrōpous) which other versions correctly render (see below).

    So to be consistent, we also need to correctly understand WILL ( θέλω – θελέω ) rather than selectively applying the KJV use to fit our doctrine.

    θέλω (thĕlō) = want
    choose or prefer (lit. or fig.); by impl. to wish, be inclined to (sometimes adv. gladly); impers. for the fut. tense, to be about to; to delight in:—desire, be disposed (forward), intend

    KJV = will have all men
    NKJV = desires all men
    RSV = desires all men
    ESV = desires all people
    ASV = would have all men
    CSB = wants everyone

    As in 2 Peter 3:9, God is not willing ( βουλόμενός) that any should perish, (ἀπολέσθαι) but that all come to repentance.

    I think you say that if ALL do not come to repentance then God’s will is imperfect or ineffective or a failure. But the verse shows that some will perish, otherwise why even mention “perish” as option at all?

    KJV = not willing that any should perish
    ESV = not wishing that any should perish
    NIV = not wanting any to perish
    YLT = not counselling any to be lost

    Just a few thoughts.

    Alan.

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    1. Hi Alan, I appreciate you taking the time to respond to my comment to “breadoflife639” but I want you to be aware that I write in certain ways to intentionally provoke a certain kind of thought. While I accept and welcome any criticism or disagreement for the things I’ve published, please don’t get in the habit of overanalyzing everything I say to other people. Yes it is known that I am very confident about my position about hell as a false doctrine and I wouldn’t have it any other way for we are admonished to be “persuaded in our own minds” the things we choose to do, accept, or believe. We will all be held accountable for our works. Below are my responses to your comments;

       1. It does not make sense to argue that “hell is so important…..because you need to feel special”……. or that *heaven wont be as good without the billions of losers consigned to hell*. Although there may be some who think that way, it is certainly not a required REASON for belief in hell…… ie. compared to hell being the penalty for rejection of Salvation.
       Let me hasten to reiterate that I do not believe in an eternal life of torment in fire for unbelievers, but rather a *destruction*. This is where I part ways with the doctrine of torture in “never-ending-fire”.
       That being said, I don’t think it helps to claim others believe in an eternal hell just to make them feel good about heaven. It would be preferable to re-summarise your reasons for teaching that there is no ultimate destruction of the unrepentant contrary to references to it.

       “Alan, just because something doesn’t make sense to you doesn’t mean it’s not worth being a point of reference in an argument. I have several theories about the psychology of a person that embraces eternal torment and the first is deception. I believe that the majority of people believe in literal conscious torment because of deception. With that said, there is a minority of people that want hell to exist because they think hell is justified punishment for a temporary life of sin. When I was a church attending Christian, I always despised the doctrine of hell and even though I believed it, I believed it because that’s what I was taught. I was deceived but I never believed that hell was an appropriate punishment for being a sinner. I have argued that hell is a lie for over 15 years and the responses that I’ve gotten from Christians is appalling. I had one lady tell me on YouTube that if there was no hell she would curse God to His face. That told me that not only did she approve of hell, she wanted the wicked to be tortured forever and ever. I have written an entire series on why hell is a false doctrine and for someone to read it and still be of the position that God is still going to torture the majority of humanity; my patience for such ignorance is limited. I see no other alternative for someone to reject so much truth except that they feel special that God chose them or somehow they figured out how to avoid the fate they damn the rest of the world to. I never claimed that this feeling of importance or specialness was a required reason for people to believe in hell. That wasn’t the reason why I made that remark. I specifically made that comment to “breadoflife639” because of the things he said having bypassed or totally failing to even read everything I wrote in my paper on the false doctrine of hell. If he is going to make a comment of criticism, he should’ve at least had the diligence to read what wrote then he may have been able to offer a better counter although I have my doubts. I know that many believe that hell is an appropriate penalty for the rejection of salvation although there is no scriptural basis for that belief. It is a belief based solely on Christian tradition. I am aware that you have embraced the doctrine of annihilation and while that is a far better belief system than hell, it is still a doctrine that robs God from all the glory. The wicked are destroyed but the wicked aren’t destroyed beyond God’s resurrecting power and His ability to lead them to righteousness in the judgment. If a person is adamant that billions of people are going to suffer the punishment of eternal torture in hell, I don’t think there is anything I can do to help them. I know for a fact that there are Christians that believe they are special because they are convinced that they aren’t going to hell and that they will gain an eternity with God. Winning a million dollars isn’t as sweet if everyone else also won a million dollars”.

       2. You say: “If there was eternal damnation then Christ’s work on the cross was a failure. Christ’s work was to defeat death but according to you death will reign over billions for all eternity.”
       I am not sure how you come to that conclusion. It is really a straw man argument.
       Christ defeating death refers to his resurrection.
       Death only “reigns” in the sense that in this life death is an unbeatable enemy.
       We are promised that those “in Christ” will live again and death will no longer be the enemy.
       It does not follow that unrepentant sinners will not be be destroyed at the second death.
       Following the judgment death is also destroyed.
       But the destruction of death does not demand that all beings who no longer exist should be somehow brought back into existence.
       It just means there will be no MORE death.
       It does not logically follow that eternal death means that “death” has any power to “reign”. Death is a state-of-being, not an entity.

       “Since you have embraced the doctrine of eternal destruction, would you be willing to accept the fact that your interpretation of scripture may be influenced by your own belief system? When I made that statement about Christ defeating death that was a general statement because I wasn’t going to repeat myself over something I’ve already covered. I’ve come to the conclusion that Christ’s work was to defeat death because that is what we learn from the scriptures without adding our own religious bias to it.
       The wages of sin is death and Christ died for the sins of the whole world. I know that Christ defeating death refers to his resurrection but “in Christ” all shall be made alive. If 100 billion people are locked in the state of eternal death, then death will reign over them for all eternity but that is not what we learn from the scriptures. The wicked will be resurrected from the dead in the resurrection to judgment. It is comments like this, “We are promised that those “in Christ” will live again and death will no longer be the enemy” that make me say things like, “Christians need a hell (or eternal death in this case) because it makes them feel special”. What gives you the right to assume or interpret that “in Christ” only refers to a special group of people and not all of humanity”. Can you explain how anyone ends up “in Adam”? 1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. What did the either of us have to do to die “in Adam”? Can you not see that the same “ALL” is in view here? The same “ALL” is being contrasted – EVEN SO (likewise in the same manner). Same “ALL” that die “IN ADAM” is the same “ALL” that are made alive “IN CHRIST”. Adam is not greater than Christ. If Adam received a 100% return on sentencing humanity to death, then Christ will be even more the victor when He proclaims His 100% return on granting life to all of humanity.
       You are adding your own interpretation of the second death to God’s word just to fit your belief in a destruction that never ends. Jude 1:7 says that Sodom and Gomorrha will suffer the vengeance of eternal fire but in Ezekiel 16:55, we read that these same cities will return to their former estate. I thought they were suffering the vengeance of eternal fire? You have come to the false conclusion that the second death has to be a literal actual death but what point would it be for God to resurrect people from the dead to send them right back to being dead? You think that’s judgment? Judgment is about correction and doing the right thing. Revelation 2:11 says he that overcomes will not be HURT of the second death it doesn’t say he that overcomes will not be killed or destroyed of the second death. The second death is obviously not a literal death as in the end of life; the second death is the death of the carnal man – the death of Adam in all of us. Once the carnal man is destroyed there will be no sin thus no purpose for death altogether and this is how the last enemy which is death is destroyed. Christ has the keys to death and the grave and He will free everyone from its clutches. Why is it that you struggle with accepting this truth? Does it make you feel special to know that you will live while others (billions) will be locked in the state of death? I’m not being facetious with you I want you to really try to investigate your feelings and ask yourself why you cannot believe what is obviously revealed in God’s word”.

       3. You wrote: “Please, by all means cite the scriptures you believe proves your point that God is a liar and that He won’t do what He says He will do.”
       That is akin to the fallacy of the “loaded question”…. or maybe just “begging the question.”
       I sense your frustration, but it does not help to make these “no-win” type statements. Of course we all believe God will do what He says He will do….. and He is not a liar, but the dispute is regarding WHAT HE SAID not whether He is a liar.
       If we take your final verse as an example of what God said:
       “1 Timothy 2:4, God says He WILL have all men (humanity) to be saved and to come into the knowledge of the truth”….. you have put “humanity” in parenthesis to indicate that “men” does not mean only men will be saved.
       That is right to do, and it demonstrates a need for correct understanding; where the KJV uses the word “men” it means all “people”….. (pantas anthrōpous) which other versions correctly render (see below).
       So to be consistent, we also need to correctly understand WILL ( θέλω – θελέω ) rather than selectively applying the KJV use to fit our doctrine.

       θέλω (thĕlō) = want
       choose or prefer (lit. or fig.); by impl. to wish, be inclined to (sometimes adv. gladly); impers. for the fut. tense, to be about to; to delight in:—desire, be disposed (forward), intend

       KJV = will have all men
       NKJV = desires all men
       RSV = desires all men
       ESV = desires all people
       ASV = would have all men
       CSB = wants everyone

       As in 2 Peter 3:9, God is not willing ( βουλόμενός) that any should perish, (ἀπολέσθαι) but that all come to repentance.
       I think you say that if ALL do not come to repentance then God’s will is imperfect or ineffective or a failure. But the verse shows that some will perish, otherwise why even mention “perish” as option at all?

       KJV = not willing that any should perish
       ESV = not wishing that any should perish
       NIV = not wanting any to perish
       YLT = not counselling any to be lost

       “Alan, I have to admit that I was being a little crafty here with my question. I was trying to bait “breadoflife639” into responding in such a way that he (or she) would lead me right into my next defense but you instead took the bait for them. Honestly I think you should’ve known better because I’m sure you can surmise that you are not the first person to try to tell me that God only desires of wishes to save all of humanity which means He can’t or won’t save all of humanity. If we believe that God really is God and that He is the supreme all-knowing and all-powerful Creator of the entire Universe, who, what, when, where, and how is anyone or anything going to stop said Creator of getting what He desires of wishes? When you make such a connotation, you liken God to that of a man. We can’t always get what we desire because we are human but you don’t believe that God can get what He desires? I know that there is a weaker Greek word “will” that means to want, desire, or to take pleasure in and I also know that there is a stronger Greek word “will” that means it must come to pass as in “My will be done”. My question to you is, what is stopping God from getting what He wants or desires? The free will of men I suppose? Do you believe that the supposed free will of men is more powerful than the desires or wants of God? You said we all believe God will do what He says He will do and that He is not a liar but when you presume that God cannot get what He wants are you not calling God a liar albeit subtly? I must confess that you are correct in saying that this dispute is regarding WHAT HE SAID and in Isaiah 46:10, God says that HE WILL ACCOMPLISH WHAT HE DESIRES!
       Isaiah 46:9-11 Remember what I accomplished in antiquity. Truly I am God, I have no peer;
       I am God, and there is none like me, who announces the end from the beginning and reveals beforehand what has not yet occurred; who says, ‘My plan will be realized, I will accomplish what I desire;’ who summons an eagle from the east, from a distant land, one who carries out my plan. Yes, I have decreed, yes, I will bring it to pass; I have formulated a plan, yes, I will carry it out.
       The Hebrew word “ḥēp̄eṣ” means to desire or to take pleasure in so when God says that He will (desires) to save all of humanity, God declares the He will accomplish what He desires to whatever pleases Him. Is this not made clear enough? Do you think I’m taking scripture “out of context” as if God can only accomplish what He wants or desires in the context of Isaiah 46?
       In regards to 2 Peter 3:9, I do believe that ALL will come to repentance but I in no way think that somehow God’s will is imperfect or ineffective. You are subjecting me to your own faulty interpretation of scripture. The word “perish” comes from the Greek word “apollymi” and it is also translated as the English words destroy and lost. When the Greek word “apollymi” is applied to humanity outside of a resurrection, then the perishing, destruction, and being lost is permanent but Jesus came to save that which is LOST (Greek – “apollymi”). There is no perishing of humanity that is outside of God’s resurrecting power and we can be assured of this when we read 1 Corinthians 15:12-18;
       Now if Christ is preached that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ is not risen. And if Christ is not risen, then our preaching is empty and your faith is also empty. Yes, and we are found false witnesses of God, because we have testified of God that He raised up Christ, whom He did not raise up—if in fact the dead do not rise. For if the dead do not rise, then Christ is not risen. And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins! Then also those who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished.
       Yes some perish, in fact, WE ALL PERISH. Even the righteous perish (Isaiah 57:1) but perishing is only permanent when we eliminate God’s ability to raise the dead. God will not leave the righteous or the wicked populations locked in the state of death because God is the God of the living not of the dead. God is not willing that any should perish (without a resurrection) but that all come to repentance – Daniel 12:3 (many being turned to righteousness after waking up from sleeping in the dust of the earth i.e., THE RESURRECTION)”.

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       1. Hello Sulaiman,
          Thanks again for the effort you put into the extended and detailed reply. I am not sure there is any new information about your belief in what you have written, but I guess it provides opportunity for further clarification.

          I will omit quoting some of your reply – where there is no dispute or we are talking past each other. I will quote where there is a point for clarification.

          You wrote: “Yes it is known that I am very confident about my position
          about hell as a false doctrine and I wouldn’t have it any other way for we
          are admonished to be “persuaded in our own minds”.

          Yes of course. But you surely must recognise that being “persuaded in our own mind” is problematic if we are wrong.
          Even those who believe in eternal torture are *persuaded in their own minds*.
          The point I made in this regard was regarding your claim that you have “…..destroyed virtually every fundamental Christian doctrine that is a lie on this site and no a single Christian has been able to provide even a semi-logical rebuttal….”

          I think I have provided some semi-logical rebuttals….. or at least some semi-logical contentions…… to which you have responded with your reasonings, but which remain open. Examples follows:

          Re 1. You wrote: “Alan, just because something doesn’t make sense to you….”
          No. I was saying that it does not make sense, period, to propose that something which a minority of psychologically disturbed people might think (ie. they are “special”) is common to belief in the doctrine of hell.
          Rather, I agree with you that most people believe in the “doctrine of hell” due to deception….. they think hell is a *place* of never ending punishing.
          But I agree that YouTube woman was horrible. “Feeling special that God chose her” does not even come close to *saved by grace, not of works lest anyone should boast*

          (And to use your analogy, I think it would be sweet if everyone won a million dollars. Existence of abject poverty would diminish my enjoyment of wealth. But I am not sure how that analogy helps your argument that everyone will be saved. Wouldn’t that be like everyone winning a trillion dollars?)

          ————————————————

          Re 2. You wrote: “Since you have embraced the doctrine of eternal destruction,
          would you be willing to accept the fact that your interpretation of
          scripture may be influenced by your own belief system?”

          Well. Only if….. since you have embraced the doctrine of universal salvation, you would be willing to accept the fact that your interpretation of scripture may be influenced by your own belief system.

          You wrote earlier that “while annihilation is a far better belief system than hell, it is still a doctrine that robs God from all the glory”.
          I don’t agree that it does.

          You say, “the wicked are destroyed but the wicked aren’t destroyed beyond God’s
          resurrecting power and His ability to lead them to righteousness in the judgment.”
          That seems to be playing with the meaning of “destroyed” in the same way the doctrine of hell does….. ie. destruction does not really mean destruction….. perish does not really mean perish…… and all references to chaff, such as Matthew 3:12 and Malachi 4:1, are not a pictures of extermination by fire.

          You wrote: “If 100 billion people are locked in the state of eternal death,
          then death will reign over them for all eternity”

          Where are you getting 100 billion people? That is more than have ever lived and died in known human history. But more to my point, they would not be “locked in a state of eternal death”….. whatever you think that is.
          They simply would not exist.

          You wrote: “ The wicked will be resurrected from the dead in the
          resurrection to judgment.”

          Yes. And that judgement will be from the books….. probably meaning the law….. specifically commandments, by which all are found guilty.
          Except those whose names are written in the book of life (Rev 20:12-15)
          Whoever believes in Christ will not perish. (John 3:16)

          (I know you have your own explanations surrounding these verses – about which, as previously noted, I am not as convinced as you are.)

          You wrote: It is comments like this, “We are promised that those “in
          Christ” will live again and death will no longer be the enemy” that make
          me say things like, “Christians need a hell (or eternal death in this case)
          because it makes them feel special”. What gives you the right to assume
          or interpret that “in Christ” only refers to a special group of people and
          not all of humanity”.

          I guess the same as gives you the right to assume or interpret that “in Christ” means all of humanity.

          “By this we know that we abide in him and he in us, because he has given us of his own Spirit. And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son as the Savior of the world. Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God. So we know and believe the love God has for us. God is love, and he who abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him.
          1 John 4:13–16

          Paul writing to the believers in Galatia. Galatians 3:26-28
          To the believers in Rome. Romans 8:1
          Colossians 3:3 For you have died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God
          If anyone is in Christ…. 2 Corinthians 5:17
          To the believers in Ephesus….. Ephesians 2:13. (Now in Christ Jesus)
          Jesus said, I am the vine…… if you remain in me….
          If anyone does not abide in me he is thrown away like a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned. John 15:5-6 John 15:7

          You wrote: “Can you explain how anyone ends up “in Adam”?
          1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be
          made alive. What did the either of us have to do to die “in Adam”? “

          Not sure what is your puzzle. Yes…. all humanity is metaphorically ‘in Adam’ for we were reproduced from the seed of Adam.

          “Can you not see that the same “ALL” is in view here? The same “ALL”
          is being contrasted – EVEN SO (likewise in the same manner). Same
          “ALL” that die “IN ADAM” is the same “ALL” that are made alive “IN CHRIST”.

          I can see the parallel you are constructing, and if there were no other scripture for understanding one could claim “ALL” means every human who ever existed. So it depends on whether you want to understand other verses like John 15:5-7 in light of Corinthians 15:2, or understand Corinthians 15:2 in light of John 15:5-7.

          Context is always relevant. If we were at a church picnic and you asked me who could have an ice cream, and I said everyone, you would not think I meant everyone on the earth.

          You wrote: “You are adding your own interpretation of the second death
          to God’s word just to fit your belief in a destruction that never ends.”

          I disagree. Right there you are adding your interpretation to my words.
          What is a “destruction that never ends”. That is an oxymoron.
          A second death is a pretty straight forward concept.
          You die once. You are resurrected. Second Death. Nothing.

          You wrote: “Jude 1:7 says that Sodom and Gomorrha will suffer the
          vengeance of eternal fire but in Ezekiel 16:55, we read that these same
          cities will return to their former estate. I thought they were suffering the
          vengeance of eternal fire?”

          Somewhat of a moot point. You are mixing up the proof to use against proponents of eternal hell fire. I use Jude 1:7 to prove eternal fire does not mean eternal burning…… but that the destruction is complete.
          Also, it is a skinny argument to try and make something literal about a resurrection of Sodom (no Gomorrah by the way) from a personification of cities to contrast Jerusalem’s unfaithfulness and ingratitude with God’s enduring love to her.

          You wrote: “You have come to the false conclusion that the second
          death has to be a literal actual death but what point would it be for God
          to resurrect people from the dead to send them right back to being
          dead? You think that’s judgment?

          Correct. All creation must observe justice….. a fair trial. God does not just allow His curse of death to destroy an individual without a judgement.
          Just as a man incarcerated awaiting trial is not simply left there without coming to court for judgement.

          You wrote: Judgment is about correction and doing the right thing.
          Revelation 2:11 says he that overcomes will not be HURT of the second
          death it doesn’t say he that overcomes will not be killed or destroyed of
          the second death.

          Merely argumentative.

          You wrote: “The second death is obviously not a literal death as in the end of life”
          Not obviously. Etc. omitted

          You wrote: Why is it that you struggle with accepting this truth?
          It’s not a struggle. I reject your interpretation as truth.

          You wrote: Does it make you feel special to know that you will live while
          others (billions) will be locked in the state of death?
          No. Firstly I have no feelings of being special at all.
          Secondly, billions will not be “locked” in any state at all.
          They cannot be in a “state” if they have been destroyed.

          You wrote: “I’m not being facetious with you I want you to really try to investigate
          your feelings and ask yourself why you cannot believe what is obviously
          revealed in God’s word”.

          I don’t think you are being facetious, but you are exhibiting self-righteousness.

          self-righteous. adjective.
          ….characterized by a certainty, that one is totally correct or morally superior.

          ——————————————-

          Re 3. You wrote: “Alan, I have to admit that I was being a little crafty here with my question. I was trying to bait “breadoflife639” into responding
          in such a way that he (or she) would lead me right into my next defense but you instead took the bait for them. Honestly I think you
          should’ve known better because I’m sure you can surmise that you are not the first person to try to tell me that God only desires or
          wishes to save all of humanity which means He can’t or won’t save all of humanity.” Etc omitted…….

          You persist with the notion (which I briefly mentioned in my previous post) that somehow God is a failure if what he desires for humanity is not accepted by all humanity.
          You ask who can stop God getting what he desires.
          No one can.
          But what if you do not understand God’s stated desires?
          You are assuming you understand the totality of what God desires.
          God is capable of infinite desires without contradiction.
          You seem to imagine you can fathom those depths.
          It is not ridiculous to say that God is capable of deciding for Himself if His desires will be fulfilled.
          Otherwise you find yourself saying that God is limited to what we think He means when He says His desire is that all should come to repentance.
          Why is there need for repentance?
          You may as well ask why a good God can’t stop evil in the world.
          We know he does not desire that men sin….. but they do.
          And wasn’t God capable of preventing sin in the first place?
          I do not ask these immature questions.
          God is God. He wills what he will.
          I am responsible for my actions…… while at the same time, without God I am incapable of doing good.

          I understand all the arguments that you made and your rationale is not without merit, but I do not agree that your conclusions are as incontestable as you believe them to be.

          Yes….. in Isaiah 46:10, God says that HE WILL ACCOMPLISH WHAT HE DESIRES! (In capitals with exclamation)

          And yes this has been made clear enough.
          Nevertheless, it still begs the question as to how you consider your understanding what God has revealed in the entire scripture regarding His desire to be incontestably correct.

          I do not find any need to lever the Word of God so that death does not mean death, or destruction not mean destruction, or perish not mean perish…… nor in opposition to the doctrine of hell that eternal punishment means eternal torture, nor eternal destruction meaning continuous destroying, nor any of the other euphemisms such as “eternal separation” & “eternal darkness” etc.

          Having said all the above, if in eternity I find that I am wrong and every human that has ever existed will be saved to experience eternal paradise with our Creator, I will not have a problem with that.
          (Maybe that surprises you.)
          Even that YouTube lady who says she will curse God to His face if there is no Hell.

          Although I suspect she is not really one of the redeemed at all….. but rather one of those to whom Jesus says, “depart from me I never knew you”.
          (But of course you believe she will also be saved)

          If that is what God does then all will be well regardless.

          (Sorry for the long text)

          Alan

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       2. My response to your last comment is quite long so I put my responses in a link that you can view here…

          https://therealgospelofchrist.com/response-to-alan-beasy-2/

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       3. Thanks for your response. It is not practical to respond here to your separate essay-sized response.

          I appreciated your first three paragraphs, but after that, two of my valid points were dismissed as mere “deflections” without any better explanation than before, and many of your answers involved repeating some of the same logic I had previously questioned.

          This was a pity because I can say that half way through your essay, your further explanation of 1 Corinthians 15:21 was helpful in understanding your persuasion for believing the doctrine of ALL being saved, but I almost did not get that far.

          The temptation to gaslight me with a tone of ridicule throughout the piece did not help (eg kindergartener) and claiming that I think God is like of Adolf Hitler, Joseph Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao Zedong is the same projection used by atheists re God of the Old Testament.

          Look. I am not trying to convert you. I am a truth seeker. I am yet to be convinced that you have shown from scripture that everything you teach is true….. so it is not fair to claim that is merely because I am not in tune with God.

          Similarly, when I do not fully follow something you write, you say it is because of my lack of ability to believe what God has spoken. But when you do not fully follow something I write, you say I am incoherent.

          This is not the basis for drawing someone to truth.
          If what you teach is true, it should be able to be evident from scripture plainly with no ambiguity, rationalisation or ridicule required.

          All the above is also a waste of words if it achieves nothing.
          Is there a way to respond to your reply on the separate link?
          Or are you done with this discussion?

          Because I am also interested in going beyond this to understand your meaning of the term “Christian”; who are disciples/apostles; who/where is the true church; who/where are the true saved now.

          (Also for interest, how it can be mathematically possible for a hypothetical 100 billion people to live and die within earth’s 7000 year history according to Genesis…… or even according to secular evolutionary theory. Or how many years into the future would be required for 100 billion people to live and die on earth)

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       4. Alan, I don’t know if it is practical for this discussion to continue at this point for one, it is getting nowhere and two, it is extremely time-consuming. I have devoted a considerable amount of time in responding to your prior comment and I don’t know if I can continue devoting such time in vain. You say you are a truth seeker and you are asking me questions but you don’t listen to anything I say. I don’t expect you to believe anything I say but then again the question remains, why are you asking me questions? If you believe that God is going to annihilate the majority of the human population then stick with that. I honestly don’t know what else I can tell you at this point because I have pretty much covered all of the basics. We cannot move on to any higher teachings until the basics are understood. I did feel like some of your comments were deflections and it’s not prudent for me to be the only one producing legitimate arguments that are at the least backed by scripture. If I repeat the same logic it is because it is necessary and relevant. If you were offended by my tone then I apologize but my point was to illustrate the simple connection that I believed was something a kindergartener could comprehend. Young children are free learners not having years building up their own biases and politics. My comments were not meant to be personal attacks against you. I don’t know what you think about God except for what you have told me and you have told me that you believe that God is going to exterminate people in the judgment. These aren’t just people; these are people’s family members and loved ones. Do you love your family? How would you feel if they were exterminated by anyone let alone God? All I am trying to do is to get you to think outside of your natural frame of thinking. I listed all of the men who are known to the world as the most evil of men and they all committed egregious acts of genocide. This is not the same projection used by atheist because the atheist argument (re God of the Old Testament) is a relatively good argument coming from a person that theoretically doesn’t even understand or believe in God. Christians believe in God but they also believe is some very damnable doctrines that are contrary to the doctrines of God. You may not be trying to convert me but you have presented yourself as an enemy of this site as this site is for the full purpose of promoting and defending the teaching that God is the Savior of the world. Anyone that believes or professes something to the contrary of what I’ve presented is an enemy of this site. I have spent countless hours writing and creating this site and I haven’t earned a single dime for my efforts. I pay the yearly hosting fees with my own money (albeit not very expensive). I have a lot of pride and confidence in my work so I do and will continue to be aggressive and sometimes offensive if I have to. I know that you are not convinced that I have shown you from the scriptures that everything I teach is true. I don’t know if that’s even something achievable but I have at least admitted that I could be wrong. I don’t think I am but I will at least confess that what I believe is based on my faith and my faith is strong but have considered the possibility that you may not be in tune with God? If I can’t quote scripture without you finding a different way to interpret it then this discussion is useless. I have literally quoted scripture to you on dozens of occasions and what the scriptures say seemingly mean nothing to you because you will interpret them from the framework of eternal death. Everything I write (well, almost everything) comes from biblical theory. If I quote God in 1 Timothy 2:4 in saying, “God will (desires) to save all of humanity”, that is not my writing, that is GOD’S WRITING! If you don’t understand 1 Timothy 2:4 it is because of your lack of ability to believe what God has spoken. How is that not true? I haven’t even changed anything the verse says what it says and the only people that change it to mean something else are hell believers and annihilationist. We can have a discussion about scripture and we can even debate the interpretation but some scriptures do not need interpretation such as God is love. We can certainly elaborate on what that means but we don’t need to add any special exegesis to understand that God is love. That alone contradicts the doctrine of annihilation. If you add your own interpretation to our discussion and I believe it to be incoherent I am only making that measurement based on what I believe the scriptures reveal. You said, “if what you teach is true, it should be able to be evident from scripture plainly with no ambiguity, rationalization or ridicule required” but who says it isn’t? I believe what I teach to be very evident but people bring with them all of their own religious biases and dogmas they have been indoctrinated with making it far easier for people to believe a lie than any truth. If “truth” was that easy to be discovered and understood then how else would the devil deceive the WHOLE WORLD (Revelation 12:9)? God sends forth lying spirits, strong delusions, blindness, spirts of stupor, and gives man over to a reprobate (debased) mind all for what? To teach truth plainly with no ambiguity, rationalization, or ridicule?
          Isaiah 28:13 But the word of the Lord was to them, “Precept upon precept, precept upon precept, Line upon line, line upon line, Here a little, there a little,” THAT THEY MIGHT GO AND FALL BACKWARD, AND BE BROKEN AND SNARED AND CAUGHT.
          There are many called but few chosen.
          I would be happy to continue our discussion but I would prefer that we simplify our dialogue. When you ask several questions I tend to get detailed and exhaustive with my commentary. We need to figure out a way to keep our discussions from getting carried away and I say that for myself as well.
          We can have a discussion about the meaning of the term “Christian” and some of the other things you mentioned.
          In regards to the 100 billion people comment, why do you suggest that the earth has a 7,000 year history? Furthermore, how do you link that with Genesis? The earth has existed for millions of years. Millions of people lived and died well before people kept records so there is no way for anyone to ever know how many people have ever lived and died but people have still tried to estimate. According to Wikipedia, it took over 2 million years for the world population to hit 1 billion and then over the next 200 years a population growth of 6 billion. I also found a website that had some interesting statistics on it and I have no idea how they calculated such data but I can only assume they had some form of a validated system. Anyway, the chart shows that as of 2019, 1.9 billion people have ever been born. You can check out here if interested.
          https://www.prb.org/howmanypeoplehaveeverlivedonearth/#:~:text=Given%20the%20current%20global%20population,have%20ever%20lived%20on%20Earth.

          Note: I have added a comment section on that link I sent you with my prior response so you can comment there is you’d like.

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24. Thank you! This is the clearest most concise piece I’ve ever read. I’m 65 years old, grew up in a christian church, completely believed the whole bundle of lies most of my life. I discovered the real gospel of Jesus Christ about 2 years ago by reading ‘The inescapable love of God’ by Thomas Talbott. The bright light of Truth illuminated God’s words and all of the sudden it was like reading the book for the first time, everything made sense! Blessed be the God and father of our Lord Jesus Christ. Isn’t it liberating to believe in the Living God who is the Savior of all men!

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    1. Absolutely!

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       1. I testify to the Truth of John 6:44. I grew up in a conservative church. I even went forward at a Billy G. event in San Francisco. Nothing in me changed. My mother gave me over to God. Then God drew me to Him over time. I had boasted to my friends that I would never go to a Christian college that my mom wanted me to go to. Guess what?!! God moved me in His way to go. And guess what he did there to me??? He made me Born Again. HE did it NOT ME!!! I now have the Father and Brother that I never had. Praise God, three in one, for all Eternity. See http://www.rscolporteur.com

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25. I know you are very busy and naturally like all of us, you have a private life to lead.

    But thank you so much for the countless hours you have spent giving other people the benefit of your knowledge and discernment.

    I feel smug (sin ? 😊) or maybe vindicated is abetted term. I have always believed that not everybody had the ability to just pick up the Bible, open it, read, it and understand it in ANY language, even, their native tongue, much less interpret it correctly. My church or rather many who attend it unfortunately treat the Bible almost as if it is a 4th member of the trinity, their interpretation is terrible literal when it should be spiritual or metaphorical and metaphorical when it should be literal, and worse. Well, actually I should not care if they treat it like a 4th member of the trinity because there is no such thing as the Trinity ! 😊. But, no, that means they are almost worshipping the Bible which is the sin of idolatry that is the subject of about 80% of the sermons I have heard and a sin that is mentioned without fail in every single Sunday school class or Bible study. I don’t mean to offend by being flippant, idolatry is a sin, and perhaps everyone today is often close to committing it if only for a short time. However, I get tired of sermons that are so very “preachy” and heavy. My Mom attends a Catholic Church out of habit. She is no true Catholic. If the Pope new how little she knows or cares about exactly what Catholicism teaches and expects and demands, she would have been excommunication a long time ago. She is just comfortable there because she was brought up Catholic. When I complain about sermons at my church, she is amazed. She said last week that the priest’s discussion of the Bible passages was about hope for the future. No mention of how sinful we all are and how likely at any moment to fall into it. This may be true, but do Protestant and Baptist preachers and pastors think that we don’t already know this ? I know you feel contempt (and no doubt with good reason) for church going Christians. But we are no all stupid, stubborn, hypocritical, exclusive, A-holes with a superiority complex. I simply cannot believe I and the few people whose comments I have read on your website are the only ones desperate to know what you know and have our brainwashed brains and our terrified and despairing hearts filled with the truth.

    I have been a very infrequent church goer for months now anyway.

    Sunday school is mostly social for me and everyone there. The teacher end up letting us out after an hour and a half instead of an hour because it takes so long to get to the actual lesson. We spend far more time talking to each other about our personal lives.

    Speaking of which, I will leave you in peace so I can get dressed and go.

    Have a great day ! Thank you again !

    Part

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26. Good evening. I was just re-reading your article on The Sinner’s Prayer. I just read a question from another reader about “in the millennium reign of Christ, who will be saved on earth; who will they rule and reign with…”

    You answered that only the “elect” and Jesus Christ will be living during that time (Revelation 20:5) and that reigning with Christ for 1000 years is the reward for believers not salvation for the lost/wicked whose salvation doesn’t come until they are judged in the resurrection to judgment.

    I believe you. My question is probably going to sound stupid, but I only read Revelation once and did not understand any of it. It was more like skimming than reading. I have done a lot of reading about Universal Salvation (or Christian Universalism Salvation – some people seem to prefer one of several terms for the concept that all will be saved) since I first duscovered it on your website and I am familiar with the 1000 year reign and the two resurrection events.

    Who exactly are “the believers ?”All those who believe in Jesus ? Including all those Christians who believe a false gospel that Jesus never taught ? Church goers who think they are saved by saying the “sinners prayer”

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    1. The believers are those that believe in Jesus Christ but what does it mean to believe in Jesus Christ? If you believe in Christ, wouldn’t you think that it would make sense to believe in His cause? How can we say that we believe in Christ but then reject the very mission that He was commissioned by the Father to accomplish.

       1 John 4:14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son [to be] the Savior of the world.

       I placed brackets over the phrase “to be” because this is not in the original Greek. The Father has sent his Son – Savior of the world. Jesus is already the Savior of the world. That is His title. We cannot call Him the Savior of the world if He doesn’t actually save the world. That would also make Him a failure along with the Father. How many people do you know that reject the belief that Jesus is the Savior of the world? If a person rejects the mission of Christ – which is to save the world, then they DON’T believe in Christ. They believe in something else, a false Christ, a false religion. That’s why many are called but few are chosen. Christians or church goers who are still trapped under the lies and deceptions of religion are not believers.

       2 Thessalonians 2:9-11 The coming of the lawless one (the carnal man of sin in all of us) will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie (Jesus will not save the world), and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing (into the coming age). They perish because they refused to love the truth (Jesus is the Savior of the world) and so be saved. For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie. (Emphasis mine)

       Claiming to believe in Jesus is not enough. Many believe in a version of Jesus that is not Jesus at all. There are probably hundreds of millions of people that actually believe that Jesus preached about hell when the truth is that He never even said the word hell in His entire life. When I make this claim, I get attacked by the bible idolizers as if I’m ignorant of the fact that most popular “bibles” do in fact attach the word hell to Jesus. I then have to remind people that their favorite bible translation is not Jesus. People are called out of the world and brought into the church. Believers are chosen out of the church to be God’s elect.

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27. Just a question, so when you say the punishment for living in sin is DEATH and they will not live until the second coming. So do you believe that those who do not live a pure life will just die and be asleep? I am confused.. Are you saying if we sin we will just be gone asleep for years until the second coming? it has been 2023 years since the first coming. Do you believe that the spirit in which we was also made will die too? I believe in the father and that he sent his only son to die for our sins. But to say people who make mistakes will simply just die, is almost as bad as saying we will go to hell? I mean wow if I cannot be forgiven let me at least not just completely DIE. I truly believe if we mess up in this life, we will wonder the earth lost in spirit, until we are saved.

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    1. I don’t specifically remember saying what you have mentioned but I would happy to review it if you can quote me where I’ve supposedly made that reference. I do believe I’ve said on a number of occasions that the wages of sin is death which is a direct quote from Romans 6:23 but Jesus has taken away the death penalty from humanity. This occurs in the resurrection when God will raise the dead through Christ. Some will rise to life and some will rise to judgment but after the judgment God restores all things and God will be all in all. Death is only likened to sleep as hyperbole. There is no consciousness in death so a person could be dead for a day or dead for a million years and it wouldn’t make a lick of difference to the person that’s dead. The spirit does not die. Spirit cannot die for spirit is life. The spirit that is in man will return to God at death but the man no longer exists until God put’s His spirit back in the man which will occur during the resurrection of the dead. I’m not sure where your questions are coming from because I can’t think of anything I’ve said that would warrant such questions. Everyone makes mistakes. Everyone sins so therefore everyone will die but God has already made provisions to remedy this curse. There is nothing even close to being as bad as hell and I’m not sure where your line of thinking is. Death is infinitely more merciful than being tortured in fire for all eternity. I’ve always said that those who believe in annihilation have a better theology than those who believe in eternal conscious torment but even then the annihilationist is far short from God’s love and His ultimate plan of salvation for all humanity. Humans beings mess up their whole lives. From birth to death the human experience is just a series of mistakes but through the process, we learn and we grow some slower than others but in the end we die. The sorrows of this life are temporary and what God has in store for His creation we can’t even fathom with our finite minds.

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